View Poll Results: Would you support a second stimulus package?

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Thread: Would You Support a Second Stimulus Package?

  1. #91
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    Re: Would You Support a Second Stimulus Package?

    Quote Originally Posted by celticlord View Post
    Henry Morgenthau blamed FDR as well as himself, and he was there.

    Regardless of the global situation
    How can you rationally say that? The US during the 1920s had a huge percentage of its economy directly tied to world trade. The indirect amount of GDP related to direct trade must have been immense. To pretend that the global situation, in which the US economy was previously heavily integrated did not matter is certifiably insane. It's like saying right now that free trade is irrelevant towards economic expansion.

    the New Deal was a failure, it wasted US dollars and prolonged the slump in the United States. That's not bias. That's history.
    See above.

    You have failed to discuss the impact of global trade barriers. Thus you have massive bias. And it's not history when you don't account for a 400 lb gorilla in the room.
    "If your opponent is of choleric temperament, seek to irritate him." - Sun Tzu

  2. #92
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    Re: Would You Support a Second Stimulus Package?

    A second second stimulus would just be another vehicle for our unbelievably corrupt government officials to steal more of the wealth of this country.

    Has anyone noticed the inflated prices of food?
    I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it.--Thomas Jefferson

  3. #93
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    Re: Would You Support a Second Stimulus Package?

    Quote Originally Posted by obvious Child View Post
    You have failed to discuss the impact of global trade barriers. Thus you have massive bias. And it's not history when you don't account for a 400 lb gorilla in the room.
    There is no 400lb gorilla in the room. Try reading what I wrote instead of knee-jerking to what you think I meant to write.

    Quote Originally Posted by celticlord View Post
    And it is a damn shame Hoover didn't do nothing. Had he emulated Harding and done nothing, the economic horror show of FDR's New Deal might never have been attempted.
    Had Hoover done nothing, that doing nothing would have included not signing the notorious Smoot Hawley tariffs, the foundation of these "global trade barriers" you are obsessing about.

    Hoover's interventions were bad. FDR's interventions were considerably worse. The lesson drawn from both of their administrations it that government involvement in economic matters is a piss poor idea that needs to not be attempted ever.

  4. #94
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    Re: Would You Support a Second Stimulus Package?

    Quote Originally Posted by obvious Child View Post
    How can you rationally say that? The US during the 1920s had a huge percentage of its economy directly tied to world trade. The indirect amount of GDP related to direct trade must have been immense. To pretend that the global situation, in which the US economy was previously heavily integrated did not matter is certifiably insane. It's like saying right now that free trade is irrelevant towards economic expansion.
    Business & Finance: Exports, Imports - TIME

    Exports in 1928 were $5,129,000,000. Imports in 1928 were $4,091,000,000.

    Smoot-Hawley Tariff Act - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    Exports in 1929 were $5.4Billion and imports that year $4.4 Billion.

    GDP in 1928 was $97 Billion and $103.6 billion in 1929.

    Federal Spending, State and Local Public Spending for 1928 - Charts
    Federal Spending, State and Local Public Spending for 1929 - Charts

    Where's the huge percentage?

  5. #95
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    Re: Would You Support a Second Stimulus Package?

    Quote Originally Posted by celticlord View Post
    Where's the huge percentage?
    5% of the economy was directly related to exports. 4% was related to imports.

    Tell me, how do you think our economy would work if you ripped out 11% of it?

    Furthermore, tell me, how do you think our economy would work if you destroyed the indirect effect? At a meager 1.5 multiplier, that's 13.5% of the economy gone. At a more reasonable 2%, that's almost 20% of the economy wiped out. Tell me, if the US economy went from $11 trillion to $8.8 trillion, do you think that would matter?

    I take it you have absolutely no idea what spending multipliers are eh?
    Last edited by obvious Child; 07-13-09 at 06:04 PM.
    "If your opponent is of choleric temperament, seek to irritate him." - Sun Tzu

  6. #96
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    Re: Would You Support a Second Stimulus Package?

    Quote Originally Posted by obvious child View Post
    5% of the economy was directly related to exports. 4% was related to imports.

    Tell me, how do you think our economy would work if you ripped out 11% of it?

    Furthermore, tell me, how do you think our economy would work if you destroyed the indirect effect? At a meager 1.5 multiplier, that's 13.5% of the economy gone. At a more reasonable 2%, that's almost 20% of the economy wiped out. Tell me, if the us economy went from $11 trillion to $8.8 trillion, do you think that would matter?

    I take it you have absolutely no idea what spending multipliers are eh?
    5 + 4 = 11?

  7. #97
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    Re: Would You Support a Second Stimulus Package?

    Quote Originally Posted by G.I. Joe View Post
    5 + 4 = 11?
    Sorry. 9%. Odd. Especially since 13.5% is 1.5 multiplier of the 9%. I think I saw imports at 6% originally and then edited.

    Food for thought:

    Between 1929 and 1932 the total value of world trade had declined by more than half.
    Great Depression in the United States - MSN Encarta

    There's a reason why so many people are adamant against trade barriers right now. They know what made the stock market crash of 1929 into a full blown depression. Any discussion about the depression without talking about world trade is rather idiotic. Ignoring the 400 lb gorilla doesn't make a good argument.

    Ripping out 20% of an economy is going to seriously hurt. Celticlord apparently does not want to talk about this.
    Last edited by obvious Child; 07-14-09 at 09:20 PM.
    "If your opponent is of choleric temperament, seek to irritate him." - Sun Tzu

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