Think my first try at this post got eaten by the server downage.
I'm uncertain why you're calling the 'core purpose' "extra conditions". Confusion perhaps? Procreation is the reason marriage is "vital to the survival of Man" and *the* reason why the state has any interest in marriage at all. If it weren't for raising children, marriage would in every way reflect any other strictly legal contract and there would be no reason for the existence of "marriage". You didn't read Skinner and Loving yet?
Skinner says that marriage
and procreation protected by the 14th amendment. This says nothing of marriage as being strictly
for procreation. Loving reaffirms the right of marriage as being protected under the 14th. Again, it does not say that marriage is confined to procreative intent.
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Gay-marriage is unique in that the couple can not together procreate naturally; which is the expected outcome of marriage. Mixed races can. Polygamists can. Mixed religions can. Yet gays can not. The healthy gay couple is functionally identical to the infertile hetero couple, and no one on 'the right' is defending infertile couples in marriage for you to then point and demand the right extend that same protection.
Not sure I follow the last there. Are you saying no one is defending an infertile couples right to marry, as it seems? I did not know any one was challenging their right to marry.
This is ground the pro-gm folks must address. Even if you personally think this issue is tertiary, it is ground you political opponents see as vital, so you must address it.
The only political opponent I see making a fuss over this is you. it is almost never mentioned in most conversations on gay marriage that I have seen, outside of when you bring it up. Again, I believe that most people will not oppose gay marriage for the reason of procreation, since to tie marriage strictly to procreative intent would create a change in marriage as it is in this country that I doubt people will support.
You are not trying to win your support. You already have that.
You are trying to win our support. Not only have you been told how to do it, but it's extremely easy. It is the argument which wins most in court. It is the argument which wins the harts of the people who vote in law at the poll. It has worked every time it has been tried that I know of.
You are making a false assumption. I am not trying to win any ones support. Hell, I am not even trying to win an argument. I am simply debating a topic. Nothing posted on this board will make a bit of difference in the big picture. What will win gay marriage is gay people going about their lives and waiting for the tide of public opinion to finish going their way. It's an inevitability, and will not be long. Hopefully soon enough for me to go to a certain gay marriage I want to see.
What is going to win the day for gays and their desire to marry is not debate, but being gay and out there, and being seen, more and more, as just people. The younger generations just don't see the issue like us older folks do.
Stanch resistance to that argument is highly suspect. Why wouldn't you jump at the chance to secure swift victory?
Hell I've already given you some arguments word for word in the Reverse Debate forums. You have no excuse.
You are under the mistaken idea that you are the target that I want to sway. You are not. If you have all the information and tactics, you are either swayed, or not going to sway. Arguing with you is just a way to pass the time, to entertain myself, and as a mental exercise. I have learned more in the almost 3 months I have had internet back arguing with people here, looking things up, having things linked back to me.
I do not see our activity here as "winning or losing" a debate. I think this is where CC goes wrong. It's not about winning. Usually, most people walk away from each conversation thinking they got the best of it. It's not a win or lose type thing, it's an express your opinion in the best way you can type thing.
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Thank god for cut and paste, and thinking to do so when I realized the time.