View Poll Results: Would you vote to legalize same gender marriages?

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  • Yes, I would vote to make gay marriage legal

    99 69.72%
  • No, I would vote against making gay marriage legal

    37 26.06%
  • I am undecided and wouldn't vote

    6 4.23%
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Thread: Would you vote to legal same gender marriages?

  1. #81
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    Re: Would you vote to legal same gender marriages?

    Quote Originally Posted by Apocalypse View Post
    Yeah, children with a stranger's genes in them.
    Would you want a stranger's genes in your baby?
    Some of me has never said such a thing.
    Perhaps it was some of you who said it out loud and you got confused.
    I already stated in my first post that this is my own opinion, and I'd avoid voting on this issue.
    It matters to me because I see homosexuality as a block to reproduction.
    Would I want a stranger's genes in my baby? I don't know. I'm not infertile. I've never really had to ponder that dilemma. I have my own biological child. If I hadn't been able to produce ovaries I might have considered using another woman's. My ex-husband might have considered using another man's sperm. It's what infertile couples often do. Or we might have gone one step further and adopted a complete stranger. Imagine that.

    I understand your instinctual objection. I'm not judging you or anything. I'm just showing you that in this day and age of medical miracles there is no such thing as a block to reproduction.
    "Yes, but are you a Protestant atheist or a Catholic atheist?".- Northern Irish joke

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    Re: Would you vote to legal same gender marriages?

    Quote Originally Posted by Arcana XV View Post
    Would I want a stranger's genes in my baby? I don't know. I'm not infertile. I've never really had to ponder that dilemma. I have my own biological child. If I hadn't been able to produce ovaries I might have considered using another woman's. My ex-husband might have considered using another man's sperm. It's what infertile couples often do. Or we might have gone one step further and adopted a complete stranger. Imagine that.

    I understand your instinctual objection. I'm not judging you or anything. I'm just showing you that in this day and age of medical miracles there is no such thing as a block to reproduction.
    I'm sorry, I got an image of you pulling up to a pedestrian and throwing him in your trunk....

  3. #83
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    Re: Would you vote to legal same gender marriages?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    I'm sorry, I got an image of you pulling up to a pedestrian and throwing him in your trunk....
    Well, what do you expect? The adoption agency turned me down.
    "Yes, but are you a Protestant atheist or a Catholic atheist?".- Northern Irish joke

  4. #84
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    Re: Would you vote to legal same gender marriages?

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainCourtesy
    I'm not arguing the position. All I'm saying is how those opposed would argue it. I agree with you.
    It doesn't really matter how they would argue it if their argument is illogical, which it clearly is. You have to remember these are the same people who believe in an invisible man in the sky.

    Yes, but under anti-discrimination laws, this argument would fail. A white man not being allowed to marry a black woman is discriminatory under the law, because it prevents something that is legal, with the exception of race. A white man not being allowed to marry a black MAN is not discriminatory under the law. At this time, when it comes to marriage laws, sexual orientation is not recognized as discriminatory. In order to change the law, you have to have cause. The discrimination argument doesn't cut it because gay folks can already marry...just not someone of the same sex. This is why the family argument will win because there is plenty of research to support it. One cannot argue the discrimination position with any valid research. A gay man can still marry a woman will always stop the argument dead in the water.
    But there was a time when it was illegal for a white man to marry a black woman and vice versa and the reason that it is no longer illegal is because people realized it was a patent violation of equal protection rights under the law. It's a perfect example of something that was once illegal, like gay marriage is in some places today, an which became legal because it was a basic violation of guaranteed Constitutional rights. We guarantee equal rights for all men (and by extension women), not white men, not straight men, *ALL* men. To give rights to one group and not to another is a basic violation of our guaranteed rights. That's about the best cause you can find.

    You cannot legislated "love" or "want to". It is not logical. Currently, a man can marry a women, regardless of sexual orientation. Going with the "love" argument, is a loser argument. What if someone "loves" their dog? I've done this debate many, many times. The discrimination is a failed argument. Far too many potholes.
    Wrong, it's not. Marriage is a legal contract, any two people who can enter into a legal contract ought to be able to do so. A dog cannot legally enter into a contract, nor can a child. I don't know who you've debated who has failed to point out this very simple fact, but this is simply not a pothole, it's a basic fact.

    I do not assume sexual orientation is a choice. Nor do I hold that not legalizing gay marriage is right. But it's not about what is right; it's about what can be proven and what is a winning argument. Discrimination is a loser argument. I am pro-GM, and I've already shredded your position on this. An anti-GM person will do better.
    I've just shredded your claims, do try again.

    Separate but equal wasn't. It was stupid 120 years ago and it's stupid now. They must be treated the same under the law.
    But they're not. If a straight person can choose who they wish to marry, assuming the other person agrees and reciprocates, and be married under the eyes of the law, then to tell a gay person that they cannot choose the person they wish to marry and likewise have the same right is discriminatory. Telling them that sure, they can be married, just not to the person they want to marry, is an absurd argument. It's like saying everyone can be married, but only to the people their parents choose for them to marry. That was the custom in many places and it was struck down.

    There is nothing to be gained from the discrimination argument alone and there are far to many solid refutations.
    Too bad you haven't presented a single one.
    There is nothing demonstrably true that religion can provide the world that cannot be achieved more rationally through entirely secular means.

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  5. #85
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    Re: Would you vote to legal same gender marriages?

    Quote Originally Posted by OxymoronP View Post
    I would vote no, if it was a bill to expand rights of Civil Unions then by all means yes. Marriage is a cultural/religious term, it shouldnt be changed to please a minority, but I dont see why We cannot offer basically the same rights under a different name.
    Why change names when we already have a perfectly usable word for it already? Why play semantical games? Marriage hasn't been a primarily religious term for many, many years anyhow, you can walk down all the aisles in all the churches you want, you're not married until you get that piece of paper from the state. The ceremonies don't mean squat, it's the license that matters.

    The religions can just grow up and get over it. They do not "own" the word.
    There is nothing demonstrably true that religion can provide the world that cannot be achieved more rationally through entirely secular means.

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  6. #86
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    Re: Would you vote to legal same gender marriages?

    Quote Originally Posted by Arcana XV View Post
    Nice dodge. Who said the women in my story were not part of a couple?

    Straight couples make the choice never to have children. Homosexual couples make the choice to have them.

    Which one is more natural?

    Given the enormous advances in reproductive medicine, the "unnatural" argument really doesn't hold any water anymore. People who really want children will have them and those who don't won't. It has nothing to do with sexual orientation anymore.
    Lots of straight couples have the choice made for them as well. My sister and her husband will never have children, she has been told by her doctor that if she ever became pregnant, she may end up paralyzed due to major back problems. Therefore they will *NEVER* have children. Should we forcibly remove their marriage license now?
    There is nothing demonstrably true that religion can provide the world that cannot be achieved more rationally through entirely secular means.

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  7. #87
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    Re: Would you vote to legal same gender marriages?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    That's right, we can create gay-marriage just as we made a right for women to vote: through the legislative branch and the legislative exclusively.

    The fact that gays are trying to force their religious beliefs onto the public through judicial fiat only demonstrates an extreme disrespect for the rule of law, favoring the bible over constitution.
    Jerry, you're full of it. There are all kinds of things that people have equality in today that are not guaranteed in the Constitution. The Constitution was never intended to be a static document. We can't say "only white men can drive a car because the Constitution never says we can't make that rule", that's idiotic.

    Are you really telling us that's what you think?
    There is nothing demonstrably true that religion can provide the world that cannot be achieved more rationally through entirely secular means.

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  8. #88
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    Re: Would you vote to legal same gender marriages?

    Anybody willing to vote for for legal marriage for gay couples should also be willing to vote for legal polygamy marriages.

  9. #89
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    Re: Would you vote to legal same gender marriages?

    Quote Originally Posted by lincoln View Post
    Anybody willing to vote for for legal marriage for gay couples should also be willing to vote for legal polygamy marriages.
    And if they can figure out the legal problems with them, I'd be all for it. Unfortunately, our entire legal system is based around a partnership that is disolved when one partner leaves. When you have multiple partners, deciding who gets what when someone leaves or someone joins, custody issues for multiple parents, etc. would be a legal nightmare. Come up with workable solutions and I'll be the first one to vote for legal polygamous marriages.
    There is nothing demonstrably true that religion can provide the world that cannot be achieved more rationally through entirely secular means.

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  10. #90
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    Re: Would you vote to legal same gender marriages?

    Quote Originally Posted by lincoln View Post
    Anybody willing to vote for for legal marriage for gay couples should also be willing to vote for legal polygamy marriages.
    I am.


    As long as the parties involved in any marriage are human, of age, and capable- I don't give a damn who gets married. Why should I?
    Is what you're living for today, worth dying for tomorrow?
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