View Poll Results: Would you vote to legalize same gender marriages?

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  • Yes, I would vote to make gay marriage legal

    99 69.72%
  • No, I would vote against making gay marriage legal

    37 26.06%
  • I am undecided and wouldn't vote

    6 4.23%
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Thread: Would you vote to legal same gender marriages?

  1. #451
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    Re: Would you vote to legal same gender marriages?

    Quote Originally Posted by a777pilot
    I agree. So why the big push to call it what it is not....a marriage. Draw up a legal document and have it enforced by the courts. But marriage it is not.
    Because a document that includes all of the benefits and logistics of a marriage document is a marriage document. The same reason why all death certificates are called 'death certificates'.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry
    Yeah well from a "legal" standpoint marriage is necessary for the survival of Men. Gay relationships...not that vital....unless they're raising children, but then it's about family, as I said.
    Contracts need not be 'vital' to society for two individuals to enter into them. A contract is only illegitimate if one or more parties are coerced into signing it and/or the contract states an agreement to do something illegal (killing someone, for example). If two individuals voluntarily and mutually agree to enter into a contract that fits that bill, it's being 'vital' or not to society is irrelevant. I can draw up a binding contract promising my roommates that I will shower only between the hours of 7:00 and 9:00 AM. Vital to society? Hell no. A legitimate contract, surely.

    There is not one legitimate reason for preventing two individuals from entering into a voluntary and peaceful contract.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry
    So far, gay relationships don't seem to be about raising children, so since the government's only interest in the legal institution of marriage is not apparently present in gay relationships, there's no reason to legalize gay marriage.
    Of course there is. I'll reiterate: Gays, like everyone else should have the basic right (and do in all other facets of life) to enter into voluntary, peaceful contracts.

    -NC
    Last edited by NortheastCynic; 07-21-09 at 06:54 AM.

  2. #452
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    Re: Would you vote to legal same gender marriages?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    Yeah well from a "legal" standpoint marriage is necessary for the survival of Men. Gay relationships...not that vital....unless they're raising children, but then it's about family, as I said.

    So far, gay relationships don't seem to be about raising children, so since the government's only interest in the legal institution of marriage is not apparently present in gay relationships, there's no reason to legalize gay marriage.
    The government's interest in marriage as simply a vehicle for raising children is not universally accepted, even among all traditionalists. There is a clear distinction between "marriage AND family", and this is clearly illustrated by the legality (and broad acceptance) of partners who do not wish to have children. And while raising children in a more stable environment is certainly one of the tenets, there are others as well. There is also government’s interest in marriage as "an institution that sustains democratic self-government the idea that marriage helps constitute (or domesticate) adults as good citizens". Perceived connections between marriage and civic virtue were historically important to governmental policies concerning freed slaves, immigrants, and child protection (Source: http://www.hofstra.edu/PDF/law_lawre...d_vol32no1.pdf).

    Marriage is a civil right as per Loving v. Virginia, which therefore gives those who claim this is a "rights-based" issue plenty of legal ground. To me and many others, marriage is not simply about raising children or having families, and it can include other couplings besides simply one man and one woman.

  3. #453
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    Re: Would you vote to legal same gender marriages?

    Quote Originally Posted by NortheastCynic View Post
    Contracts...A contract....contract....enter into a contract....a binding contract....contract......contract.....
    ...etc, etc. ad-nausium.

    Marriage is a sociological organism vital to the survival of Man (Skinner, Troxil, Loving), not a mere contract like every other.
    Quote Originally Posted by NortheastCynic View Post
    Of course there is. I'll reiterate: Gays, like everyone else should have the basic right (and do in all other facets of life) to enter into voluntary, peaceful contracts.

    -NC
    Hey anyone who wants to enter this type of "contract" to serve the purpose this "contract" is all about is welcome to it, imo. Show me a significant demographic of brothers and sisters adopting children out of the system and I'll even support incest.

    But you have to serve the purpose, otherwise you have no business messing with it.

  4. #454
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    Re: Would you vote to legal same gender marriages?

    Quote Originally Posted by Singularity View Post
    The government's interest in marriage as simply a vehicle for raising children is not universally accepted, even among all traditionalists. There is a clear distinction between "marriage AND family", and this is clearly illustrated by the legality (and broad acceptance) of partners who do not wish to have children. And while raising children in a more stable environment is certainly one of the tenets, there are others as well. There is also government’s interest in marriage as "an institution that sustains democratic self-government the idea that marriage helps constitute (or domesticate) adults as good citizens". Perceived connections between marriage and civic virtue were historically important to governmental policies concerning freed slaves, immigrants, and child protection (Source: http://www.hofstra.edu/PDF/law_lawre...d_vol32no1.pdf).

    Marriage is a civil right as per Loving v. Virginia, which therefore gives those who claim this is a "rights-based" issue plenty of legal ground. To me and many others, marriage is not simply about raising children or having families, and it can include other couplings besides simply one man and one woman.
    I never said marriage was only about raising children.

    I said that was the government's interest in marriage.

    You want to get married? Fine, go buy some rings from WallMart and have a service. No one's stopping anyone from having a ceremony and living together. What you do in your bedroom is your personal business.

    But if you're not raising children, there's no reason to give you a marriage license, so don't even ask for one.

    If gays as a population show that the typical gay relationship is about the family and raising children, then Conservatives like myself will sign off on it and turn the other way to all the gay couples who are not raising children just as we do for all the hetero couples who are not raising children.

    Though imo those childless hetero couples have no business getting married either, and if the government were to step in and remove the marriage license of childless couples, I wouldn't oppose that.
    Last edited by Jerry; 07-21-09 at 09:36 AM.

  5. #455
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    Re: Would you vote to legal same gender marriages?

    I have a question for you Jerry, do you think only people who intend to raise children should get married?

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    Re: Would you vote to legal same gender marriages?

    Quote Originally Posted by pro-bipartisan View Post
    I have a question for you Jerry, do you think only people who intend to raise children should get married?
    I thought I was already quite clear on my opinion there: yes.

    Couples who have had, currently have, or intend to have children.

    If you don't have kids, you don't affect me, so I don't care about you.
    Last edited by Jerry; 07-21-09 at 10:14 AM.

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    Re: Would you vote to legal same gender marriages?

    Why? So i assume that you believe straight couples shouldn't be married either if they do not intend to raise children?

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    Re: Would you vote to legal same gender marriages?

    Quote Originally Posted by pro-bipartisan View Post
    Why?
    Why what?

    Quote Originally Posted by pro-bipartisan View Post
    So i assume that you believe straight couples shouldn't be married either if they do not intend to raise children?
    That's right:
    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    Though imo those childless hetero couples have no business getting married either, and if the government were to step in and remove the marriage license of childless couples, I wouldn't oppose that.

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    Re: Would you vote to legal same gender marriages?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    Why what?
    Why do you think only people who intend to raise children should be able to get married?

  10. #460
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    Re: Would you vote to legal same gender marriages?

    Quote Originally Posted by pro-bipartisan View Post
    Why do you think only people who intend to raise children should be able to get married?
    Raising children is the only interest the government has in marriage.

    No children, no government interest.

    The legal buffs of marriage are meant to assist those raising children, so taking those buffs when you do not have children is an abuse of liberty.

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