View Poll Results: Would you vote to legalize same gender marriages?

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  • Yes, I would vote to make gay marriage legal

    99 69.72%
  • No, I would vote against making gay marriage legal

    37 26.06%
  • I am undecided and wouldn't vote

    6 4.23%
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Thread: Would you vote to legal same gender marriages?

  1. #301
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    Re: Would you vote to legal same gender marriages?

    Quote Originally Posted by Arcana XV View Post
    I don't think the "it's for the children" argument will win many hearts out there. I can totally see where you all are coming from with that and it's a good solid argument. However, the majority of people who oppose gay marriage that I've come across do so because the idea of same-sex relationships repulses them on an instinctual level. They see it as abnormal, unnatural, sinful and disgusting. The idea that these people they look upon with such scorn are actually raising children is even more shocking to them. I've even heard the argument that the best thing for these children would be to take them away from this "damaging" environment. Solid as the argument may be, I highly doubt it will sway any significant number of gay-marriage opponents.
    The contingent of people who believe homosexuality in all its forms is immoral and unnatural are not likely to be swayed by any argument. That much is true.

    The contingent of people who feel strongly in this way are also very much a minority.

    A pro-family rhetoric in support of same sex marriage is the rhetoric that would accentuate and isolate that minority. That argument compels such opponents of same sex relationships to argue against a significant body of research data that demonstrates the fitness of same sex couples to be fit parents, or to quit the debate altogether--their choices are relegation to the fringes of society for their hatred and prejudice, or quiet acquiescence.

  2. #302
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    Re: Would you vote to legal same gender marriages?

    Quote Originally Posted by celticlord View Post
    Strange as it may seem, no they are not. There is a qualitative difference between an unmarried but loving couple and a married but loving couple. Both can be profound and meaningful relationships, but they are different. I can attest to this from direct personal experience on both sides of that equation.
    Of course they're different. One is a legal contract, one is not. But as you said, both can be profound and meaningful. That piece of paper doesn't make it so.

    Perversely enough, the same sex marriage debate itself is the proof that lays this canard to rest, for if it were as you claim, same sex couples would not feel compelled to pursue a quest for a right to marry.
    Not true, since marriage bestows legal privileges that unmarried folks have to jump through more hoops to obtain. Therefore, homosexual sexual couples feel they should not have to jump through hoops to obtain the same privileges that married couples have automatically.

    I want to take a moment to reiterate an important point here: "different" is not universally "better". Not every loving couple requires the sacrament of marriage to fulfill the potential of their relationship. Each individual, within their particular relationships, must decide whether the sacrament of marriage will or will not enhance their relationships. That is not in question here.

    However, society in general does take a more positive view of married couples as opposed to unmarried couples, and the empirical data is quite clear that the sacrament of marriage positively correlates to stronger, healthier relationships, as well as healthier individuals. As healthy relationships, leading to healthy families, are the foundation of a healthy society, if government is going to regulate marriage--which it will for at least the foreseeable future--having such regulation be guided by a principle of facilitating strong relationships and strong families across the broad swath of society is prudent and proper.
    Society in general is changing, and has been for some time. Society in general does not frown upon unmarried couples the way it used to and that will only continue to progress.

    As for marriages being "stronger, healthier relationships", the over 60% divorce rate would suggest that the "stronger healthier relationships" are the minority of marriages.

  3. #303
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    Re: Would you vote to legal same gender marriages?

    Quote Originally Posted by celticlord View Post
    The contingent of people who believe homosexuality in all its forms is immoral and unnatural are not likely to be swayed by any argument. That much is true.

    The contingent of people who feel strongly in this way are also very much a minority.

    A pro-family rhetoric in support of same sex marriage is the rhetoric that would accentuate and isolate that minority. That argument compels such opponents of same sex relationships to argue against a significant body of research data that demonstrates the fitness of same sex couples to be fit parents, or to quit the debate altogether--their choices are relegation to the fringes of society for their hatred and prejudice, or quiet acquiescence.
    I'd like to believe that they are the minority, but I really don't think they are. I think it's the opposite. The minority are the ones who would be swayed by this argument. Once you put "children" and "gay-marriage" in the same sentence, the crap immediately hits the fan. Even here in Europe the majority of people do not want gays anywhere near children, which is why most countries have domestic partnerships in place but will not allow gays to adopt.
    "Yes, but are you a Protestant atheist or a Catholic atheist?".- Northern Irish joke

  4. #304
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    Re: Would you vote to legal same gender marriages?

    Quote Originally Posted by The Mark
    On the other hand, forcing everyone to accept any legal union of two persons as a "marriage", also forces persons who holds the view you outline (per their religion) to accept a definition of "marriage" which is counter to their religion.
    Too bad. Religion doesn't own the word 'marriage' nor do they have any control over how it is used.

    While the word "marriage" might only be a word, it is also a religious institution, as well as a legal one at this time. Thus, in my mind, legislating or ruling that gay marriage is legal is a violation of the separation of church and state.
    That's utterly ridiculous. Marriage has evolved quite a bit over the past couple of decades, it's no longer primarily a religious ceremony, but is almost entirely a secular legal contract. Religion, if it ever had control over it, lost that control a long, long time ago.

    My personal wish is for marriage to be eliminated as a legal method of joining two persons, and that a new institution be created for the same purpose ("civil unions"?).
    Which is downright stupid, we already have a perfectly good word to describe what's going on, that word is 'marriage' and there's no need to invent another one to make a bunch of religious people feel good. Religious marriages are entirely symbolic today, you can't get married by standing up before a priest or whatever, that's just for show. The marriage happens when you get the license from the state, not before.
    There is nothing demonstrably true that religion can provide the world that cannot be achieved more rationally through entirely secular means.

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  5. #305
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    Re: Would you vote to legal same gender marriages?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    Gay-marriage doesn't have to be *only* about children because interracial/hetero-marriage certainly is not.

    However, 'marriage' per-se is mainly about raising children. If gays can show Conservatives/blacks that their preferred flavor of marriage is also mainly about raising children, then we'll sign off on it and turn the same blind eye to all those other childless gay couples who marry as we do those childless heteros that marry.
    You keep saying that no matter how many times you're proven to be completely wrong. Why is that?
    There is nothing demonstrably true that religion can provide the world that cannot be achieved more rationally through entirely secular means.

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  6. #306
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    Re: Would you vote to legal same gender marriages?

    Quote Originally Posted by Goshin View Post
    A tradition that has served humanity well, on the whole, for thousands of years in a certain form (ie male-female marriage to create families, that most often care for their children), is a tradition that should not be thrown away lightly. Unintended and negative consequences, long-term, are not implausible.

    You want civil unions? Have them, I don't care. Just leave the term "marriage" as it has been for millenia.
    No. There's no need for "separate but equal" in the equation, if two people are going to get married, let them get married, we don't need to create new forms of marriage to keep the religious feeling good about themselves. We can do just fine with only one word, thank you very much.
    There is nothing demonstrably true that religion can provide the world that cannot be achieved more rationally through entirely secular means.

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  7. #307
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    Re: Would you vote to legal same gender marriages?

    Quote Originally Posted by joko104 View Post
    So supporting gay marriage also means a person supports polygamy? That would seem your point. Maybe the Stonewalls should be more open about that to support gay marriage then leads to legalizing polygamy.
    I'm not saying that it does or doesn't, I'm saying that you keep posting over and over that people are against polygamy when I don't think you could point to a single post in this thread that would support that view and there are many that absolutely do support it.

    If you want to go debate the point, start a thread and we can do that, although again, I don't think you'll find a lot of opposition. If someone off-site is being anti-polygamy, then maybe you ought to go debate with them, certainly doing it here isn't going to get you anywhere in that regard.
    There is nothing demonstrably true that religion can provide the world that cannot be achieved more rationally through entirely secular means.

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  8. #308
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    Re: Would you vote to legal same gender marriages?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cephus View Post
    You keep saying that no matter how many times you're proven to be completely wrong. Why is that?
    When did you stop beating your wife?

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    Re: Would you vote to legal same gender marriages?

    Quote Originally Posted by LiveUninhibited View Post
    Seriously? Did you even read my posts?
    LiveUninhibited, I want to have a good debate with ya, but I need you to learn something about using the quote code so that your posts are clearer.

    When you quote someone, there some numbers next to their name. It's a good idea to copy these numbers with their name and the "=" and paste them into the first quote brackets.

    Take the post of yours I just quoted for example. Without the "=LiveUninhibited;1058120711", it would look like this:

    Seriously? Did you even read my posts?
    Now you're quoting a lot of stuff, which is great, and your quoting different DP members in the same post, which is fine, but things can get confusing pretty quick if you don't have the correct code in place to show who said what with the permalink going back to the post you're quoting.

    It's easier than I make it sound.

    If I had just quoted you but forgot the link code, I would just edit the post to copy/paste the code:



    If you have a few quote boxes dividing up someone's post, just take that same code and paste it into the first quote bracket for each one, like this:

    Quote Originally Posted by LiveUninhibited View Post
    I
    Quote Originally Posted by LiveUninhibited View Post
    want
    Quote Originally Posted by LiveUninhibited View Post
    too
    Quote Originally Posted by LiveUninhibited View Post
    have
    Quote Originally Posted by LiveUninhibited View Post
    Jerry's
    Quote Originally Posted by LiveUninhibited View Post
    Children
    Easy peezy.
    Last edited by Jerry; 07-06-09 at 02:16 PM.

  10. #310
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    Re: Would you vote to legal same gender marriages?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    LiveUninhibited, I want to have a good debate with ya, but I need you to learn something about using the quote code so that your posts are clearer.

    When you quote someone, there some numbers next to their name. It's a good idea to copy these numbers with their name and the "=" and paste them into the first quote brackets.

    Take the post of yours I just quoted for example. Without the "=LiveUninhibited;1058120711", it would look like this:


    Now you're quoting a lot of stuff, which is great, and your quoting different DP members in the same post, which is fine, but things can get confusing pretty quick if you don't have the correct code in place to show who said what with the permalink going back to the post you're quoting.

    It's easier than I make it sound.

    If I had just quoted you but forgot the link code, I would just edit the post to copy/paste the code:



    If you have a few quote boxes dividing up someone's post, just take that same code and paste it into the first quote bracket for each one, like this:








    Easy peezy.
    I realize that, but it is still more work than pressing the quote button. When I'm quoting a new person, I will put a new quote code, until then it is the same person I am quoting as the last one. You should be able to remember what you had previously said. I didn't expect a substantive reply anyway.

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