View Poll Results: Would you vote to legalize same gender marriages?

Voters
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  • Yes, I would vote to make gay marriage legal

    99 69.72%
  • No, I would vote against making gay marriage legal

    37 26.06%
  • I am undecided and wouldn't vote

    6 4.23%
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Thread: Would you vote to legal same gender marriages?

  1. #251
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    Re: Would you vote to legal same gender marriages?

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainCourtesy View Post
    No one is arguing that marriage is necessary for procreation and/or that marriage is FOR procreation. You need to re-read the position stated. That isn't it.
    Then some one needs to clearly state the position. Arguing with Jerry on this is arguing against a constantly moving goalpost, because there is no clear position. What exactly is the position, so some one can actually follow and if necessary argue against it?

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    Re: Would you vote to legal same gender marriages?

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    Then some one needs to clearly state the position. Arguing with Jerry on this is arguing against a constantly moving goalpost, because there is no clear position. What exactly is the position, so some one can actually follow and if necessary argue against it?
    You only had to read the first page:

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    There are 3 options, though, as reflected in your poll, as you can simply choose not to vote on the issue.

    When the issue came before SD voters, I left that section blank.

    If I had to vote again, I don't know...I guess that would depend on how many more pro-gm folks told me they didn't care about the family or how I voted, and how many pro-gm started making the issue about the family.


    If gay-marriage is about raising children, then I'm for it.

    If gay-marriage is about individual 'rights', then I oppose it
    .

  3. #253
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    Re: Would you vote to legal same gender marriages?

    Quote Originally Posted by rivrrat View Post
    Yes, you all are if you're using the "it's for the family" argument. If you don't believe that marriage is necessary for raising children, then why would you use the "it's for the children" argument with regard to allowing gay marriage? Doesn't make sense.
    You haven't been paying attention. My argument isn't solely that "it's for the children". Government has a interest in marriage because marriage has been shown to increase the health of the participants, increase social and economic stability AND positively assist in the rearing of children. Notice that the word "procreation" is nowhere in my argument. You are arguing against something that I never said.

    The error in the gay marriage argument is the same error that folks make when they discuss whether their is a "gay gene". There is none. If there is a gene, it is a gene that manages sexuality in general. Concurrently, the gay marriage argument, to be successful, needs to be presented from the position of the positives of marriage in general. As soon as gay marriage is separated out, similar to the gay gene, it does not stand on equal footing. It is on equal footing, if only folks would argue it that way.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    This is what I hate about politics the most, it turns people in snobbish egotistical self righteous dicks who allow their political beliefs, partisan attitudes, and 'us vs. them' mentality, to force them to deny reality.

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    You can't paint everone with the same brush.......It does not work tht way.


    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    See with you around Captain we don't even have to make arguments, as you already know everything .
    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    Had you been born elsewhere or at a different time you may very well have chosen a different belief system.
    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    It a person has faith they dont need to convince another of it, and when a non believer is not interested in listening to the word of the lord, " you shake the dust from your sandels and move on"

  4. #254
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    Re: Would you vote to legal same gender marriages?

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    Then some one needs to clearly state the position. Arguing with Jerry on this is arguing against a constantly moving goalpost, because there is no clear position. What exactly is the position, so some one can actually follow and if necessary argue against it?
    I just posted it in post #253. I will do so again: Government has a interest in marriage because marriage has been shown to increase the health of the participants, increase social and economic stability AND positively assist in the rearing of children. Gay marriage fits all of these bills, as research shows. Therefore, legalizing gay marriage increases the health, social and economic stability, and positively assists in the rearing of children, all things that the government has an interest in. Therefore, legalizing it is in the government's interest.
    "Never fear. Him is here" - Captain Chaos (Dom DeLuise), Cannonball Run

    Mace Windu: Then our worst fears have been realized. We must move quickly if the Jedi Order is to survive.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    This is what I hate about politics the most, it turns people in snobbish egotistical self righteous dicks who allow their political beliefs, partisan attitudes, and 'us vs. them' mentality, to force them to deny reality.

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    You can't paint everone with the same brush.......It does not work tht way.


    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    See with you around Captain we don't even have to make arguments, as you already know everything .
    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    Had you been born elsewhere or at a different time you may very well have chosen a different belief system.
    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    It a person has faith they dont need to convince another of it, and when a non believer is not interested in listening to the word of the lord, " you shake the dust from your sandels and move on"

  5. #255
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    Re: Would you vote to legal same gender marriages?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    You only had to read the first page:
    Define "is about raising children" please. How do you mandate it? What laws requiring it are needed in your view? See what I am saying about your not being clear? "Is about raising children" is very vague. Do gay people just need to say "yup, we loves kids" and you will be happy?

  6. #256
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    Re: Would you vote to legal same gender marriages?

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainCourtesy View Post
    I just posted it in post #253. I will do so again: Government has a interest in marriage because marriage has been shown to increase the health of the participants, increase social and economic stability AND positively assist in the rearing of children. Gay marriage fits all of these bills, as research shows. Therefore, legalizing gay marriage increases the health, social and economic stability, and positively assists in the rearing of children, all things that the government has an interest in. Therefore, legalizing it is in the government's interest.
    How does that fit legally? As I just asked Jerry, how is "for families" enforced? What laws in addition to one allowing same sex people to marry are needed?

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    Re: Would you vote to legal same gender marriages?

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    I do not see our activity here as "winning or losing" a debate. I think this is where CC goes wrong. It's not about winning. Usually, most people walk away from each conversation thinking they got the best of it. It's not a win or lose type thing, it's an express your opinion in the best way you can type thing.
    One important point on this. This is not about winning a debate on DP. This is about winning the national debate on GM and getting it legal. The direction that Jerry and I have outlined is the way to go. I always say that DP is the world in a small package. What happens here, happens out there on a bigger scale. If Jerry and I can easily win the GM debate using the legitimate and valid position of the benefits of the family, then it can be done, similarly on a much larger scale. And we do win this, every time when we go up against anti-GMers. THIS is the point I am making when I am discussing "winning". It's an easy win. The only defense is to go with the "get government out of marriage altogether" position, which, to me, is a separate argument.
    "Never fear. Him is here" - Captain Chaos (Dom DeLuise), Cannonball Run

    Mace Windu: Then our worst fears have been realized. We must move quickly if the Jedi Order is to survive.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    This is what I hate about politics the most, it turns people in snobbish egotistical self righteous dicks who allow their political beliefs, partisan attitudes, and 'us vs. them' mentality, to force them to deny reality.

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    You can't paint everone with the same brush.......It does not work tht way.


    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    See with you around Captain we don't even have to make arguments, as you already know everything .
    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    Had you been born elsewhere or at a different time you may very well have chosen a different belief system.
    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    It a person has faith they dont need to convince another of it, and when a non believer is not interested in listening to the word of the lord, " you shake the dust from your sandels and move on"

  8. #258
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    Re: Would you vote to legal same gender marriages?

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    How does that fit legally? As I just asked Jerry, how is "for families" enforced? What laws in addition to one allowing same sex people to marry are needed?
    Who's talking about "enforced"?

    This is what marriage has always been about sociologically throughout history.

    Even in futile Japan and ancient Greece where gay relationships were the norm, "marriage" was about familial stability and raising children.

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    Re: Would you vote to legal same gender marriages?

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    How does that fit legally? As I just asked Jerry, how is "for families" enforced? What laws in addition to one allowing same sex people to marry are needed?
    I'm not sure what you are asking. Please clarify.
    "Never fear. Him is here" - Captain Chaos (Dom DeLuise), Cannonball Run

    Mace Windu: Then our worst fears have been realized. We must move quickly if the Jedi Order is to survive.

    ====||:-D

    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    This is what I hate about politics the most, it turns people in snobbish egotistical self righteous dicks who allow their political beliefs, partisan attitudes, and 'us vs. them' mentality, to force them to deny reality.

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    You can't paint everone with the same brush.......It does not work tht way.


    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    See with you around Captain we don't even have to make arguments, as you already know everything .
    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    Had you been born elsewhere or at a different time you may very well have chosen a different belief system.
    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    It a person has faith they dont need to convince another of it, and when a non believer is not interested in listening to the word of the lord, " you shake the dust from your sandels and move on"

  10. #260
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    Re: Would you vote to legal same gender marriages?

    Quote Originally Posted by rivrrat View Post
    It rests on the presumption that marriage is FOR procreation to begin with. Or necessary for procreation in some way. Or even necessary for a family at all.
    Marriage is without a doubt the best way adults can strengthen family units. It may not be "necessary", but it is undeniably "beneficial."

    Argue what is beneficial for families. There is no lie in this, nor is there deception, nor is there dissembling.

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