View Poll Results: Would you vote to legalize same gender marriages?

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  • Yes, I would vote to make gay marriage legal

    99 69.72%
  • No, I would vote against making gay marriage legal

    37 26.06%
  • I am undecided and wouldn't vote

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Thread: Would you vote to legal same gender marriages?

  1. #231
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    Re: Would you vote to legal same gender marriages?

    Well, I think that homosexuality is wrong. It goes against the word of God.

    And another point: if being homosexual is the way things were meant to be, then we wouldn't all be here because we all know that two men or two women cannot make babies together, so we would extinct.

    Now, I have nothing against homosexuals, they are free to do what they want to do, but I still think that it is very wrong.
    Nahum 1:7 - The Lord is good, a refuge in times of trouble.

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  2. #232
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    Re: Would you vote to legal same gender marriages?

    Quote Originally Posted by TheAvE8tor View Post
    Well, I think that homosexuality is wrong. It goes against the word of God.

    And another point: if being homosexual is the way things were meant to be, then we wouldn't all be here because we all know that two men or two women cannot make babies together, so we would extinct.

    Now, I have nothing against homosexuals, they are free to do what they want to do, but I still think that it is very wrong.
    Indeed. It is very wrong that your god created people who go against his 'word'. And just by way of being born, they are condemned. I agree wholeheartedly that it's wrong. It is wrong of a god to do such a thing. One might even say... sadistic.

  3. #233
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    Re: Would you vote to legal same gender marriages?

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    You are adding extra conditions to gay marriage. I doubt very much that we will need to do this to get enough support in the near future to pass gay marriage.
    I'm uncertain why you're calling the 'core purpose' "extra conditions". Confusion perhaps? Procreation is the reason marriage is "vital to the survival of Man" and *the* reason why the state has any interest in marriage at all. If it weren't for raising children, marriage would in every way reflect any other strictly legal contract and there would be no reason for the existence of "marriage". You didn't read Skinner and Loving yet?

    ***
    Gay-marriage is unique in that the couple can not together procreate naturally; which is the expected outcome of marriage. Mixed races can. Polygamists can. Mixed religions can. Yet gays can not. The healthy gay couple is functionally identical to the infertile hetero couple, and no one on 'the right' is defending infertile couples in marriage for you to then point and demand the right extend that same protection.

    This is ground the pro-gm folks must address. Even if you personally think this issue is tertiary, it is ground you political opponents see as vital, so you must address it.

    You are not trying to win your support. You already have that.

    You are trying to win our support. Not only have you been told how to do it, but it's extremely easy. It is the argument which wins most in court. It is the argument which wins the harts of the people who vote in law at the poll. It has worked every time it has been tried that I know of.

    Stanch resistance to that argument is highly suspect. Why wouldn't you jump at the chance to secure swift victory?

    Hell I've already given you some arguments word for word in the Reverse Debate forums. You have no excuse.
    Last edited by Jerry; 07-05-09 at 11:53 PM.

  4. #234
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    Re: Would you vote to legal same gender marriages?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    I'm uncertain why you're calling the 'core purpose' "extra conditions". Confusion perhaps? Procreation is the reason marriage is "vital to the survival of Man" and *the* reason why the state has any interest in marriage at all. If it weren't for raising children, marriage would in every way reflect any other strictly legal contract and there would be no reason for the existence of "marriage". You didn't read Skinner and Loving yet?

    Gay-marriage is unique in that the couple can not together procreate; which is the expected outcome of marriage. This is ground the pro-gm folks must address. Even if you personally think this issue is tertiary, it is ground you political opponents see as vital, so you must address it.

    You are not trying to win your support. You already have that.

    You are trying to win our support. Not only have you been told how to do it, but it's extremely easy. It is the argument which wins most in court. It is the argument which wins the harts of the people who vote in law at the poll. It has worked every time it has been tried that I know of.

    Stanch resistance to that argument is highly suspect. Why wouldn't you jump at the chance to secure swift victory?
    Yeah, see, that's not gonna work. I can't argue something I don't agree with even if it will "win over" the opponents.

    Arguing that marriage is necessary for procreation and/or that marriage is FOR procreation is just retarded. And I can't argue retarded.

    It would just be much simpler for everyone if the government got their filthy paws out of marriage all together and left it up to whatever religious groups want to "marry" people.

    Government out. Problem solved. (dear lord that is so true for many issues. I think it's going to be my new tagline)

  5. #235
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    Re: Would you vote to legal same gender marriages?

    Quote Originally Posted by rivrrat View Post
    Yeah, see, that's not gonna work. I can't argue something I don't agree with even if it will "win over" the opponents.

    Arguing that marriage is necessary for procreation and/or that marriage is FOR procreation is just retarded. And I can't argue retarded.

    It would just be much simpler for everyone if the government got their filthy paws out of marriage all together and left it up to whatever religious groups want to "marry" people.

    Government out. Problem solved. (dear lord that is so true for many issues. I think it's going to be my new tagline)
    You think your post here was more effective then extending a diplomatic hand?

    Observe:
    Quote Originally Posted by rivrrat View Post
    Yeah, see, that's not gonna work. I can't argue something I don't agree with even if it will "win over" the opponents.
    Then step aside and let someone else do it. No one said you had to speak. If you aren't the right tool for the job, no one will fault you for that, just stay in the tool box.

    Quote Originally Posted by rivrrat View Post
    Arguing that marriage is necessary for procreation and/or that marriage is FOR procreation is just retarded. And I can't argue retarded.
    Ahh so families are retarded now. Well if that's how gays feel then I'm going to vote against gay-marriage so as to oppose the social movement which doesn't place families in a very high regard.

    Quote Originally Posted by rivrrat View Post
    It would just be much simpler for everyone if the government got their filthy paws out of marriage all together and left it up to whatever religious groups want to "marry" people.

    Government out. Problem solved. (dear lord that is so true for many issues. I think it's going to be my new tagline)
    Ahh well there you go: I'm going to vote against gay marriage because the government needs to get their filthy paws out of marriage all together and leave it up to whatever religious groups want to "marry" people.


    ***
    I'm not actually posing those arguments to you, I'm trying to demonstrate how they are not effective in the least.
    Last edited by Jerry; 07-06-09 at 12:09 AM.

  6. #236
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    Re: Would you vote to legal same gender marriages?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kali View Post
    Of course! Only some homophobic freak would say no
    That's a bit unfair.

    Some people are just of a different generation. Not everyone who opposes gay rights has hate in their heart. Some people still see it as a lifestyle choice. They don't hate gays--they just don't know any.

    When I first became a foster parent--I was kind of on the fence when I heard about gay couples adopting children. Then I actually met a few gay couples and realized they were some of the most loving and devoted parents I'd ever meet--capable a teaching great love and tolerance to their kids.

    Peoples' beliefs are based on life experiences. It's hard to form an opinion on something you don't know or really understand. I don't believe everyone who voted 'Yes' on prop 8 is an ignorant homophobe. The person who went around my city in the middle of the night putting up yellow signs every 100 feet on city streets is a 'total jerk-ass'--as my Republican mom would say.

    My dad was a Reagan republican. He never used the word 'fag'. He just said 'funny'. "Those two guys who do your grandmother's hair and decorate her Christmas tree are a little, you know, funny." I know that's not 100% tolerant, but it's not hateful either. That was my experience in CA with semi-open-minded conservative parents.

    When gays started having 'commitment ceremonies, my feeling was, 'to each his own, whatever makes you happy.' Then when I became a foster parent and met some gay couples, I became more vocal in supporting gay rights.

    But this was all based on life experiences, not deep thought or philosophical meditation on ethics. Over the course of my life, I became more aware of gays and the gay community and learned through experience to see them as people who just want same the happiness as me.

    How can I not support that?

  7. #237
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    Re: Would you vote to legal same gender marriages?

    Quote Originally Posted by joko104 View Post
    Anyone who attaches any relevancy to genetics concerning behavior of people is fundamentally entering the world of bigots and such considerations should be completely disregarded.

    All of you claiming people are gay because they are born to be gay then also get off on so-called studies showing that blacks are most physically capable but whites more intellectually capable - for which then blacks should be laborers and whites the management. You put significance on claims that men are better at mathematics and women at linguists. For this you absolutely, completely discredit individuality and put people into various sub set of the human species collectively.
    This is nothing but a foolish silppery slope argument that has not legitimacy or accuracy. You attempt to say that because something can be genetically determined, that there is a value level to those things. Are blue-eyed people better than brown-eyed people? Your presentation above is completely fallacious and has no validity whatsoever.

    IF gayness is a genetic trait, then it is legitimate to debate whether it is desirable or undesirable, indeed whether it is then a birth defect. There are many reasons then to claim it is a genetic defect that is undesirable - reason then to urge gays not to have children.
    Sure it is legitimate debate, but not one you can win. Your supposition, again, is completely inaccurate. You are using "gayness" as an example of a genetic quality. That is erroneous. It is sexuality as a whole that may have a genetic quality.

    It is known that gays are drawn to those similar to them and repelled by those who are different. Gays can only handle romance, marriage and sex with people the same as them. While heterosexuals are drawn to what is opposite. Gays can't handle difference.
    It is known that heterosexuals can only handle romance, marriage and sex with those of the opposite sex from them. I guess they can't handle diversity...or is it a case of self-loathing. See how ridiculous your argument is?

    This would be consistent with how so many gays in general and on this forum rage and throw tantrums when anyone disagrees with them. It would explain how quickly gays try to put themselves on the persecution cross. It also would explain who so many gays express they are psychologically crushed by parents who don't agree with their being different from them, while parents have been disagreeing with the lifestyle and values of their next generation children for centuries at least and millions of heterosexual youths have been thrown out of the house without seeing their entire lives crushed.
    And you have substantiation for any of this? I would love to see it.

    The worst trait of gay "genetics" (for those who accredit it to genetics) is their high suicide rates compared to heterosexuals. Self destructiveness isn't limited only to suicide. It can also mean inability to maintain relationships, unable to work with others in employment, and overall depresssion and instability.
    Let's see some causational studies that show this connection. I've done a lot of research on this and all I see are correlational results that can be explained by societies view of gays. Interesting to note, also, is that there is a far higher rate of depression/suicidality for heteros who are single. Hence, legalizing GM would reduce the depression/sucidality in gays.

    As you "debate" the genetics of gays compared to straights, you should also go ahead and also return to debating the genetic differences between blacks and whites, the genetic differences between men and women, and even the genetic differences between liberals and conservatives.
    Remember to use the word "differences" not "better than". No one is saying that except you.
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    This is what I hate about politics the most, it turns people in snobbish egotistical self righteous dicks who allow their political beliefs, partisan attitudes, and 'us vs. them' mentality, to force them to deny reality.

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    You can't paint everone with the same brush.......It does not work tht way.


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    See with you around Captain we don't even have to make arguments, as you already know everything .
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    Had you been born elsewhere or at a different time you may very well have chosen a different belief system.
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    Re: Would you vote to legal same gender marriages?

    celticlord gets it. Jerry gets it. I get it. This is about winning support to get this passed. A family values position makes the pro-GM position seem less radical and more mainstream. Also, marriage is very, very often a conduit towards starting a family, something everyone on any side of this issue can understand and most can stand behind. In order to win on this issue, folks that do not care about gays or their issues must be convinced. Discrimination won't cut it. Many of the people that would oppose this have never been discriminated against. But they have been part of families. This needs to be directed at a point that everyone comprehends and can relate to. Family is it. It is a bulletproof argument.
    "Never fear. Him is here" - Captain Chaos (Dom DeLuise), Cannonball Run

    Mace Windu: Then our worst fears have been realized. We must move quickly if the Jedi Order is to survive.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    This is what I hate about politics the most, it turns people in snobbish egotistical self righteous dicks who allow their political beliefs, partisan attitudes, and 'us vs. them' mentality, to force them to deny reality.

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    You can't paint everone with the same brush.......It does not work tht way.


    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    See with you around Captain we don't even have to make arguments, as you already know everything .
    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    Had you been born elsewhere or at a different time you may very well have chosen a different belief system.
    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    It a person has faith they dont need to convince another of it, and when a non believer is not interested in listening to the word of the lord, " you shake the dust from your sandels and move on"

  9. #239
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    Re: Would you vote to legal same gender marriages?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    Then step aside and let someone else do it. No one said you had to speak. If you aren't the right tool for the job, no one will fault you for that, just stay in the tool box.
    No can do.


    Ahh so families are retarded now. Well if that's how gays feel then I'm going to vote against gay-marriage so as to oppose the social movement which doesn't place families in a very high regard.
    Weird how that wasn't what I said at all.

    If that was someone's argument, I guess I'd have to assume that they're too ignorant to understand what they read, and therefore their opinion is irrelevant anyway.

    Ahh well there you go: I'm going to vote against gay marriage because the government needs to get their filthy paws out of marriage all together and leave it up to whatever religious groups want to "marry" people.
    That doesn't even make any sense as a rebuttal.


    I'm not actually posing those arguments to you, I'm trying to demonstrate how they are not effective in the least.
    Arguing something I don't agree with is not effective either.

  10. #240
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    Re: Would you vote to legal same gender marriages?

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainCourtesy View Post
    celticlord gets it. Jerry gets it. I get it. This is about winning support to get this passed. A family values position makes the pro-GM position seem less radical and more mainstream. Also, marriage is very, very often a conduit towards starting a family, something everyone on any side of this issue can understand and most can stand behind. In order to win on this issue, folks that do not care about gays or their issues must be convinced. Discrimination won't cut it. Many of the people that would oppose this have never been discriminated against. But they have been part of families. This needs to be directed at a point that everyone comprehends and can relate to. Family is it. It is a bulletproof argument.
    Soo... basically compromise what you actually believe, argue something you don't believe, lie constantly to everyone about what you believe, pretend to be something you're not and that'll make it all better?

    Wrong. Education is best. Truth is best. Not lies, misdirection, and misinformation.

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