View Poll Results: Would you vote to legalize same gender marriages?

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  • Yes, I would vote to make gay marriage legal

    99 69.72%
  • No, I would vote against making gay marriage legal

    37 26.06%
  • I am undecided and wouldn't vote

    6 4.23%
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Thread: Would you vote to legal same gender marriages?

  1. #201
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    Re: Would you vote to legal same gender marriages?

    I'd certainly vote for it. Marriage has always been a malleable institution. I see no reason for it to suddenly be set in stone.

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    Re: Would you vote to legal same gender marriages?

    Quote Originally Posted by winston53660 View Post
    Apples and oranges are both fruits.
    But they can be handled separately. Similarity does not mean that things need to be handled as the same thing.

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    Re: Would you vote to legal same gender marriages?

    Quote Originally Posted by celticlord View Post
    Are they?

    So there is agreement and conformity on the definition of "marriage"?

    You sure about that?
    Under the law? I dunno for sure, I assume there are pretty straightforward rules, but I am no lawyer. You would know better than I on that.

    Note however that this does not mean that both issues need to be handled as one thing, nor should they. It is possible to handle gay marriage without ever touching on the topic of whether marriage should legally require an intent to have children.

  4. #204
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    Re: Would you vote to legal same gender marriages?

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    But they can be handled separately. Similarity does not mean that things need to be handled as the same thing.
    So how is a debate about same sex marriage separable from the definition of marriage?

  5. #205
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    Re: Would you vote to legal same gender marriages?

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    Note however that this does not mean that both issues need to be handled as one thing, nor should they. It is possible to handle gay marriage without ever touching on the topic of whether marriage should legally require an intent to have children.
    It is theoretically possible--if one wishes to exclude a broad brush consideration of procreative intent from the definition of marriage. Of course, that excludes a variety of perspectives from the debate by imposing an arbitrary definition of marriage.

    Before anyone can discuss same sex marriage, some level of consensus on what marriage is, legally and philosophically, must be reached. Paradoxically, the same sex marriage debate is at its core a challenge to traditional conceptions of marriage and the definition of the term "marriage"; it cannot be any other way, for if all were to agree that marriage was a union between man and woman, the possibility of same sex marriage disappears completely.

  6. #206
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    Re: Would you vote to legal same gender marriages?

    Quote Originally Posted by celticlord View Post
    So how is a debate about same sex marriage separable from the definition of marriage?
    Because there is no need to change everything about marriage to allow gay marriage. Children as a required part of marriage is an entirely separate aspect of marriage. You can allow gay marriage without changing how the law views marriage and children, and you can change laws about marriage and children without allowing gay marriage.

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    Re: Would you vote to legal same gender marriages?

    Quote Originally Posted by celticlord View Post
    It is theoretically possible--if one wishes to exclude a broad brush consideration of procreative intent from the definition of marriage. Of course, that excludes a variety of perspectives from the debate by imposing an arbitrary definition of marriage.
    First, stop replying to posts when I am replying to another of your posts dammit!

    Second, is procreative intent(I like that term) required by law now? If not, then from a legal standpoint it is a non issue for gay marriage. The couple examples I saw offered actually did not make that connection.

    Before anyone can discuss same sex marriage, some level of consensus on what marriage is, legally and philosophically, must be reached. Paradoxically, the same sex marriage debate is at its core a challenge to traditional conceptions of marriage and the definition of the term "marriage"; it cannot be any other way, for if all were to agree that marriage was a union between man and woman, the possibility of same sex marriage disappears completely.
    Why is there a need to change everything about marriage, to change one aspect of it?

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    Re: Would you vote to legal same gender marriages?

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    The problem is you think too highly of your own arguments.
    I'm right here, slap me down if you can.

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    Every time you have gotten into the gay marriage debate, your arguments are something of a joke to others.
    Well at least the feeling is mutual. I suspect that's what founds my comrodery with those on the other side of the issue.

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    You have not actually ever successfully argued against gay marriage.
    Only every time I toy with someone.

    Those few who are genuine discover that I don't stand in gay-marriage's way.

  9. #209
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    Re: Would you vote to legal same gender marriages?

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    First, stop replying to posts when I am replying to another of your posts dammit!


    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    Second, is procreative intent(I like that term) required by law now?
    Not so far as I am aware.

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    If not, then from a legal standpoint it is a non issue for gay marriage. The couple examples I saw offered actually did not make that connection.
    The issue is the definition of marriage--legally as well as culturally. Bear in mind that if one defines marriage as the union of man and woman, then "same sex marriage" becomes a contradiction in terms and thus an absolute impossibility; whatever union or relationship a same sex couple might have, by definition it could not be considered marriage.

    Thus, the debate over same sex marriage must at some juncture evolve into a broader debate over the definition of the term "marriage." Indeed, the very existence of the debate over same sex marriage is in large measure little more than a challenge to the traditional and widely accepted definition of marriage as being a union between man and woman.

    Invariably, the debate over same sex marriage compels us to resolve the question: "What do we as a society want the definition of 'marriage' to be?" The debate over same sex marriage cannot achieve resolution until this question is also resolved; indeed, this larger question must be resolved first, for the answer to that question will dictate the just answer to the question of same sex marriage.

    Jerry argues a definition of marriage that is centered on children and child rearing. That definition guides him to his stance on the matter of same sex marriage.

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    Why is there a need to change everything about marriage, to change one aspect of it?
    The challenge is to change the definition. By opening the door to that challenge, the door is opened for all potential definitions to be argued and discussed.

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    Re: Would you vote to legal same gender marriages?

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    Because there is no need to change everything about marriage to allow gay marriage. Children as a required part of marriage is an entirely separate aspect of marriage. You can allow gay marriage without changing how the law views marriage and children, and you can change laws about marriage and children without allowing gay marriage.
    This can be done.

    Should it be done?

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