View Poll Results: Would you vote to legalize same gender marriages?

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  • Yes, I would vote to make gay marriage legal

    99 69.72%
  • No, I would vote against making gay marriage legal

    37 26.06%
  • I am undecided and wouldn't vote

    6 4.23%
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Thread: Would you vote to legal same gender marriages?

  1. #161
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    fyi Re: Would you vote to legal same gender marriages?

    Quote Originally Posted by LiveUninhibited View Post
    What social problems has gay marriage caused in Canada?


    “The 2004 General Social Survey (GSS) inquired about sexual orientation and results showed that spousal violence was twice as common among homosexual couples compared with heterosexual couples: 15% and 7% respectively. About one-quarter (28%) were female couples and 72% were male couples.”

    Source: 2004 General Social Survey, Statistics Canada, Canada's National Statistical Agency, July 7, 2005

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    Re: Would you vote to legal same gender marriages?

    Legal is the default. Laws only make things illegal. This issue should fall under the equal protection clause. The government is granting special benefits to a segment of society. They are licensing and regulating marriage with an arbitrary reason for doing so. State sanctioned marriage is unnecessary. You can still have a lifelong relationship with the one you love, have children, and own a home together. This is why it is discrimination. The people excluded are done so arbitrarily.

    In the beginning it was necessary. People didn't have legal wills or access to legal representation in the 40 acres and a mule days. Making the transfer of property automatic protected families from losing their property to lawyers and greedy entrepeneurs. Yet, if a gay couple can have a family, why not this benefit?

    Remember, gays were breaking the law when they acted on their sexual orientation. Talk about precedence. It's okay to be Christian/Muslim/Jewish as long as you don't go to church/mosque/temple. The discrimination argument is due to the history of discrimination our govt. has employed. People see this as an extension of that. It isn't just our govt. that has discriminated. The vast majority has until the last several decades' increasing acceptance (I'll say since televisions have been a common household appliance. Or since Little Richard did Tooty Fruity on TV.)

    There's something like 1,100 benefits afforded to married couples. It's arbitrary as to why straights get preferrential treatment from the govt. In fact, if we cut through the B.S., the reason is religious in nature and since the majority were religious, their side won out. Civil rights are about protecting the minority against the tyranny of the majority. As for stats, an injustice for one is an injustice for all.
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    Re: Would you vote to legal same gender marriages?

    Quote Originally Posted by joko104 View Post
    “The 2004 General Social Survey (GSS) inquired about sexual orientation and results showed that spousal violence was twice as common among homosexual couples compared with heterosexual couples: 15% and 7% respectively. About one-quarter (28%) were female couples and 72% were male couples.”

    Source: 2004 General Social Survey, Statistics Canada, Canada's National Statistical Agency, July 7, 2005
    So if these couples weren't married they wouldn't be violent?

    Are you saying that marriage causes violence?
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    Re: Would you vote to legal same gender marriages?

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    When you have to twist meaning like that, it pretty much always means you are wrong, as you are in this case.
    Mere objection is not an effective rebuttal.

    Gays can marry gays and gays can marry heteros just as Blacks can marry Blacks and Blacks can marry whites.

    Yes, it has to be a man/woman pair, but that's no different then being unrelated, age of consent, unmarried, etc. No one has the right to marry someone of the same-sex, no one ever did, which means equality is already achieved just as Loving said.
    Last edited by Jerry; 07-04-09 at 11:43 AM.

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    Re: Would you vote to legal same gender marriages?

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    I think he is actually. How about I rephrase abit to make it more clear and more accurate. Both interracial marriage bans and gay marriage bans deny people the ability to marry who they choose for no reason beyond societal discrimination.
    Women's right to vote wasn't a civil rights issue either. SCOTUS agreed that the law only gave men the right to vote. So, we made an amendment establishing this new right, and the rest is history. Imo gay-marriage is the same way. It is not a civil rights issue, so if you want to create it, there needs to be legislation passed establishing it.

    But there is no right which gays are being denied today for which they can claim discrimination.

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    Re: Would you vote to legal same gender marriages?

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainCourtesy View Post
    That's the point I've been trying to make with you. They won't. Which is precisely why you cannot argue from this position. This is why the discrimination argument and "marrying because I want to" argument will not work. Anti-GM folks, most of them at least, could care less about caring about the feelings of gays. The way around this is the government/society/couple/family benefit argument.
    Very true.

    I love my sister, doesn't mean I support incest. Feelings are subjective and it's very difficult for the typical hetero to empathize how someone would feel towords a gender that hetero is hard wired to sexually repel.

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    Re: Would you vote to legal same gender marriages?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    Right, so long as we understand each other.

    Gays want to marry? Fine, great, pull up a chair; but gay-marriage will be what hetero-marriage is for, raising children, and NOT the expression of individual rights, AND gay marriage will be established through perfectly constitutional means, not the court system.
    Except that hetero-marriage isn't for raising children. It might include such, but there are plenty of straight people who get married and never have children and plenty of people who raise children and are never married. Therefore, it cannot be "for" something that everyone who engages in it doesn't take part in.
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    Re: Would you vote to legal same gender marriages?

    Quote Originally Posted by joko104 View Post
    Do you say that most of those who oppose legalizing polygamy are also ignorant bigots and none of htem understand the basics of morality or logic?
    Except you're not finding anyone in this thread who is posting against polygamy, are you? In fact, everyone I've seen who has mentioned it at all said they'd have no problem with it. Are you reading a different thread or just making things up?
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    Re: Would you vote to legal same gender marriages?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lopettaa View Post
    Nothing if it is needed. It is not needed here, unless of course, you are a political in need of the vote.
    That's like saying there was nothing wrong with slavery, we didn't need to change anything. Inequality is inequality and it's a violation of the most basic rights guaranteed in this nation.
    There is nothing demonstrably true that religion can provide the world that cannot be achieved more rationally through entirely secular means.

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    Re: Would you vote to legal same gender marriages?

    Quote Originally Posted by LiveUninhibited
    One would assume that assets would be distributed on an equal-per-person basis, except in cases of special pre-nuptial agreements that were notorized and presented at the time of adding a partner.

    As for children, one would simply need a hierarchy of criteria. Given the premium put on college for having a good future, human capital would have to be the first criteria. Though we would want to consider the preference of the child, depending upon maturity, and biological ties.

    I also don't really think the courts would be clogged because few people would choose to be polygamous. Our culture enshrines the "two become one" sort of idea. Good luck finding a lot of women interested in multiple-person marriages. I have known a person in exactly one successful 3-person relationship, so it can be done.
    Without derailing the thread too much, there are problems with it. Determining how much property each person is entitled to when one person leaves is going to be a disaster waiting to happen. Say three people start a relationship. Two years later, one leaves. Another year later, two more join. Then six months later, one leaves. Who gets what? If there's a single residence involved, do they all have to sell it so that one person gets their fair share? Children are another problem. Can a group of people legally adopt a single child? If so, how do you determine visitation rights, legal rights, etc. if the group breaks up? I'm not saying it can't be done, only that we currently don't have the case law to iron out the kinks. At least with gay marriage, we already have tons of case law for divorce, property, etc. Polygamy is wandering around in uncharted waters. Before I could give complete assent to having polygamous marriage, I'd need to see that we have an equitable system in place to deal with these problems.
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