View Poll Results: What would you do with career politicians?

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41. You may not vote on this poll
  • Keep things as they are.

    11 26.83%
  • Eliminate them through mandatory term limits.

    27 65.85%
  • Don't know / no opinion.

    3 7.32%
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Thread: Career politicans?

  1. #71
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    Re: Career politicans?

    Quote Originally Posted by Alfons View Post
    I support your sugegstion. The guys know nothing except mobbing and career making. We need more Reagans and Schwarznegers, but not career liars and blah-blah speakers.
    I don't know much about Reagan other then he was a actor. Der Terminator? He has his own problems in California. There is talk about making marijuana legal to get more money to the government.

    Ostap; Seine regierunge in Californien ist pleitem.

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    Re: Career politicans?

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    How about SS and Medicare, these programs as well as others are going to leave future generations with debt.

    Why hasn't then been addressed? In order to do so politicians would be committing political suicide. Its easier for them to promise more unearned benefits at the expense of future generations who have zero say than to fix the overall problem. How is that good? Why should should future generations pay for older generations luxuries?

    I didn't say women shouldn't have a say in government, I said that not everyone should have a say.
    The study was an example of why universal suffrage is wrong and dangerous.

    Why is it unethical and illegal for politicians to accept bribes but not voters?
    You have still not shown that universal suffrage is inherently harmful. You have shown that it may have resulted in programs and results that you personally do not like, but that is it. One of the problems with elitist views like yours is that you confuse your opinions for facts.


    The rules are simple.

    1.You can not vote if you receive any payment, benefit, special consideration or privilege out side of voting itself.

    2.You must be a tax payer.

    No grandstanding needed.
    Please explain number 1 better. If I work a job, I am receiving a payment outside of voting, so I don't think that is what you mean...

    So poor people who don't pay taxes have no stake in what the government does? How about the unemployed? How about retired people?

    Its worth hearing? Are you so sure?

    Racial pejoratives, claims of false patriotism, et all are worth hearing?

    So to you, elite = people who actually sacrifice something in order to participate?
    Just because I don't like what some one says does not mean it is not worth hearing. Upon hearing it, I may mock or condemn what is said.

    No, elitist people are those who think that some people should have more rights than others, and who think their views are the only proper way to do things.

  3. #73
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    Re: Career politicans?

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    You have still not shown that universal suffrage is inherently harmful. You have shown that it may have resulted in programs and results that you personally do not like, but that is it. One of the problems with elitist views like yours is that you confuse your opinions for facts.
    I have, how is allowing a larger group to create debt for a another group ok?

    How is using the government to take money from one group and give it to another, without their consent, ok? By any other measure that is stealing.

    My view isn't elitist, its rational and logical. To believe that the majority is right just because is foolish.

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    Please explain number 1 better. If I work a job, I am receiving a payment outside of voting, so I don't think that is what you mean...

    So poor people who don't pay taxes have no stake in what the government does? How about the unemployed? How about retired people?
    If you work for the government you would not be able to vote.
    If you receive any payment from the government you can not vote.
    It's unethical at the very least. It allows you to form a voting block based on receiving greater benefits than you have earned.

    You act as if it is only limited to poor people.
    Corporations and rich who lobby for benefits from the government will also be restricted from voting.

    Anyone, rich, poor, middle income, retired, not retired who receives any payment, benefit, privilege out side of voting will be restricted from voting.

    Paying taxes means that you are sacrificing something to vote, it means that voting has an actual value.

    As with all things in economics, if you freely give something away people will treat it as such, worthless.


    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    Just because I don't like what some one says does not mean it is not worth hearing. Upon hearing it, I may mock or condemn what is said.

    No, elitist people are those who think that some people should have more rights than others, and who think their views are the only proper way to do things.
    Voting isn't a right. It is a privilege. Even now it isn't a right.

    The proper way to do things is to not force people to do things they don't want to do.
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
    —Adam Shepard

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    Re: Career politicans?

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    I have, how is allowing a larger group to create debt for a another group ok?

    How is using the government to take money from one group and give it to another, without their consent, ok? By any other measure that is stealing.

    My view isn't elitist, its rational and logical. To believe that the majority is right just because is foolish.
    A couple points. One is that you have not shown that restricting votes to some people would necessarily change any of the things you are complaining about.

    The second is that if you want to change things, vote those doing what you don't like out. That is the American system.



    If you work for the government you would not be able to vote.
    If you receive any payment from the government you can not vote.
    It's unethical at the very least. It allows you to form a voting block based on receiving greater benefits than you have earned.

    You act as if it is only limited to poor people.
    Corporations and rich who lobby for benefits from the government will also be restricted from voting.

    Anyone, rich, poor, middle income, retired, not retired who receives any payment, benefit, privilege out side of voting will be restricted from voting.

    Paying taxes means that you are sacrificing something to vote, it means that voting has an actual value.

    As with all things in economics, if you freely give something away people will treat it as such, worthless.
    So in your plan, no one can vote. Brilliant!


    Voting isn't a right. It is a privilege. Even now it isn't a right.

    The proper way to do things is to not force people to do things they don't want to do.
    And yet you would force people to do things in order to vote....

    And you claim your view is logical...

  5. #75
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    Re: Career politicans?

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    A couple points. One is that you have not shown that restricting votes to some people would necessarily change any of the things you are complaining about.

    The second is that if you want to change things, vote those doing what you don't like out. That is the American system.
    It doesn't work like that.

    There is no one willing to stop these things, it would be committing political suicide for them.
    I am a minority and my rights have been compromised for the majority.


    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    So in your plan, no one can vote. Brilliant!
    You can always refuse benefits, no one is forcing you to take them.

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    And yet you would force people to do things in order to vote....

    And you claim your view is logical...
    Of course. If you want to selflessly contribute, you must actually contribute.

    We require our juries, judges, politicians etc to recuse themselves when there is a conflict of interest involved in something they are handling.
    Why should we not also recuse ourselves when there is a blatant conflict of interest?

    All I asking for is a voter bill of ethics, if that is elitist then there is no hope for us to remain free from any abuse.
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
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    Re: Career politicans?

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    It doesn't work like that.

    There is no one willing to stop these things, it would be committing political suicide for them.
    I am a minority and my rights have been compromised for the majority.
    Politicians don't vore themselves in, you and I do.




    You can always refuse benefits, no one is forcing you to take them.
    Do you drive on a road that federal dollars payed for? Then you have taken a benefit from the government, and cannot vote under your plan.



    Of course. If you want to selflessly contribute, you must actually contribute.

    We require our juries, judges, politicians etc to recuse themselves when there is a conflict of interest involved in something they are handling.
    Why should we not also recuse ourselves when there is a blatant conflict of interest?

    All I asking for is a voter bill of ethics, if that is elitist then there is no hope for us to remain free from any abuse.
    People contribute to the political process every time they vote. Further, every single person has a "conflict of interest" when it comes to voting.

  7. #77
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    Re: Career politicans?

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    Politicians don't whore themselves in, you and I do.

    I fixed it for ya.

    Fiddling While Rome Burns
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  8. #78
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    Re: Career politicans?

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    Politicians don't vore themselves in, you and I do.
    I don't, no one represents what I believe.
    The majority keeps the current power structure as it is, shifting back and forth between two factions.

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    Do you drive on a road that federal dollars payed for? Then you have taken a benefit from the government, and cannot vote under your plan.
    That's not a benefit outside of the role of government.

    We are talking about benefits not granted by The Constitution, outside the role of government.

    You can say they are at times ambiguous but if you take the time to read the federalist papers they clearly define what role the government has to play in day to day interactions with the people.


    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    People contribute to the political process every time they vote. Further, every single person has a "conflict of interest" when it comes to voting.
    How is someone contributing?
    Casting a vote carries a value of zero when the person is uninformed, ignorant or purposefully destructive.

    Not true, we are talking about conflicts of interest that are outside the role of government.

    Someone receiving welfare(rich or poor) has a serious conflict of interest.
    If government makes special considerations for them or their group that is a direct conflict.
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
    —Adam Shepard

  9. #79
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    Re: Career politicans?

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    How is someone contributing?
    Casting a vote carries a value of zero when the person is uninformed, ignorant or purposefully destructive.

    .

    I'd go further than that. When those who are ignorant, unreasonably selfish or irreponsible vote, it has a negative value because we all suffer for their lack of civic responsibility. This is one reason why I think having someone demonstrate some civic responsibility to earn franchise might be desirable.


    Then again, given the perversity of the human critter, they'd probably find some way to screw that up too!

    Fiddling While Rome Burns
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  10. #80
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    Re: Career politicans?

    Quote Originally Posted by Goshin View Post
    I'd go further than that. When those who are ignorant, unreasonably selfish or irreponsible vote, it has a negative value because we all suffer for their lack of civic responsibility. This is one reason why I think having someone demonstrate some civic responsibility to earn franchise might be desirable.


    Then again, given the perversity of the human critter, they'd probably find some way to screw that up too!
    Most likely, a lot of this involves human psychology.

    If something is just given away freely, people will treat it as such.
    Forget about all the romanticized nonsense about "Rocking the Vote".
    It holds no value except to politicians.
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
    —Adam Shepard

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