View Poll Results: What would you do with career politicians?

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41. You may not vote on this poll
  • Keep things as they are.

    11 26.83%
  • Eliminate them through mandatory term limits.

    27 65.85%
  • Don't know / no opinion.

    3 7.32%
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Thread: Career politicans?

  1. #51
    Educator nerv14's Avatar
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    Re: Career politicans?

    Quote Originally Posted by Goshin View Post
    Limiting franchise is something I've thought about at times, beginning when I read Heinlein's Starship Troopers. The novels he referred to as his "juveniles" often had deeper themes than 99% of what is written for mature adults.

    Given how ignorantly and selfishly many people exercise their franchise, I'm not sure it would be the worst thing to limit it a bit.

    The key component to me would be that franchise had to be earned, and that the requirements were such that any person who was willing to make some sacrifices and put forth the effort had the opportunity to earn franchise.

    This would prevent it from creating a ruling class and a ruled class.

    The Heinlein model of having to do two years of "national service" to obtain franchise was not a bad one. In the novel, he noted that anyone who insisted on doing national service was entitled to being accepted, that "if you were blind and in a wheelchair, if you insisted on doing your two years they'd find something you could do, even if it was counting the hairs on a caterpillar by touch."
    Well I do like that idea more then some sort of applitude test at least...


    I am just worrisome against even a small mass limiting of voter rights because of what it can grow into.

    This also has problems with it basically being a mandatory form of draft to supply voting rights, which does mean that it isn't mandatory though. But since I consider voting is a right, there shouldn't be any artificial barrier for an adult to obtain it.

    Also, this system odviously gives prefference to richer individuals, because I am assuming that the 2 years of work will have low wages, or it simply provides for living expences while you are working.
    If some rich person doesn't need the money while they work for 2 years to go to college later, then your system isn't fair to people with a lower income. I am sure a system would develope when only the more wealthy can vote, even if there is as motivated and self sacrificing poor.

  2. #52
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    Harry Guerrilla's Avatar
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    Re: Career politicans?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dav View Post
    You could inform the crap out of someone and they're not going to change their mind. Being "informed" means nothing, and "misinformed" voters are not the problem. The problem is people being more loyal to their party than their country.
    That is a part of it, however, the whole of the voting populous is grossly uninformed/misinformed.

    Their ignorance is displayed nearly every voting cycle.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dav View Post
    A paradox. If you can vote, and others cannot, you already have greater rights over another. You decide how the country works, they just get to sit and watch even though it affects them too.
    Voting in a federal election is not a right, it is a privilege.

    Having that privilege means you can't vote yourself gifts from the public treasury and still keep it.
    If you did, someone as will probably vote it out of your hands during the next election.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dav View Post
    Unless a majority of the country is a government worker it would be kind of hard to vote themselves benefits on their own.
    The single biggest employer in the U.S. is the federal government.
    Pandering wouldn't be hard to do, a politician can just offer more pay for everyone including benefits to garner votes.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dav View Post
    That has nothing to do with what I said, which is that our government is based on the consent of the governed, not the consent of a select few of the governed.
    The consent of the governed means that people are not being mistreated or abused, so they allow the government to continue to exist.

    In our present climate, some have decided that they are owed money that they never earned and use government to extract it from others at the point of a gun.

    That is blatant abuse.
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  3. #53
    Educator nerv14's Avatar
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    Re: Career politicans?

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post

    Voting in a federal election is not a right, it is a privilege.

    Having that privilege means you can't vote yourself gifts from the public treasury and still keep it.
    If you did, someone as will probably vote it out of your hands during the next election.
    I think you are attributing large federal spending problem to the wrong root. The problem is not that everyone has a vote, and can vote in their self interest, but that Congress is spending in areas that are not authorized by the Constitution.

    We can't deny democracy to people because the system of government is broken. That would just break the system more.

  4. #54
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    Harry Guerrilla's Avatar
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    Re: Career politicans?

    Quote Originally Posted by nerv14 View Post
    I think you are attributing large federal spending problem to the wrong root. The problem is not that everyone has a vote, and can vote in their self interest, but that Congress is spending in areas that are not authorized by the Constitution.

    We can't deny democracy to people because the system of government is broken. That would just break the system more.
    Democracy is the root of the problem.

    People legitimize the actions from their own self interest.
    Why is it ethical for a voter to help elect a politician that plans on giving them money or benefits, when it isn't ethical for a politician to do the same for a special interest group.

    Not to bash our current president but he promised the world of unearned benefits to get a elected. He was basically vote buying.
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
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  5. #55
    User TheAvE8tor's Avatar
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    Re: Career politicans?

    Okay, I agree. Limit the amount of damage one can do, but what if someone does a lot of good for our country? Would we eliminate them as well?

    And there are already mandatory term limits.
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  6. #56
    Liberal Fascist For Life!

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    Re: Career politicans?

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    That is a part of it, however, the whole of the voting populous is grossly uninformed/misinformed.

    Their ignorance is displayed nearly every voting cycle.
    I always figured the only really ignorant thing to do was either not vote, or vote for some radical group like Libertarians.

    I don't need some wild ass people to tell me whether they approve of my vote, or my reason for voting how I did. I don't need people limiting my freedoms when it comes to voting. I sure as hell don's need some right wing elitist suggesting that some people just ain't good enough to vote.

    You want to go and infringe on the freedoms of people in this country to vote as they choose, for whoever they choose, move to another country and do it. One of the fundamental things that this country does right is give nearly unfettered rights to vote for people.

  7. #57
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    Re: Career politicans?

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    I always figured the only really ignorant thing to do was either not vote, or vote for some radical group like Libertarians.

    I don't need some wild ass people to tell me whether they approve of my vote, or my reason for voting how I did. I don't need people limiting my freedoms when it comes to voting. I sure as hell don's need some right wing elitist suggesting that some people just ain't good enough to vote.

    You want to go and infringe on the freedoms of people in this country to vote as they choose, for whoever they choose, move to another country and do it. One of the fundamental things that this country does right is give nearly unfettered rights to vote for people.
    I hate to tell yea but not every individuals voice matters.

    One of the greatest scams of the 20th century was to convince everyone that they matter and that they deserve to be heard.

    You don't have a right to vote in federal elections, it doesn't exist.
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
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  8. #58
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    Re: Career politicans?

    Quote Originally Posted by danarhea View Post
    How do you vote?

    My vote - Eliminate them entirely. Put term limits on everyone. As long as the law limits their terms, then they will be limited as to the amount of damage they can do as a result of believing that they are better than the rest of us.
    I've got a better idea.

    Let's pick our representatives the same way we pick our jury pools: randomly.

    Set up a database of able-bodied adults of legal age, and just pick names out of the proverbial hat.
    I'm already gearing up for Finger Vote 2014.

    Just for reference, means my post was a giant steaming pile of sarcasm.

  9. #59
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    Re: Career politicans?

    I'd go a step farther and require that politicians can only hold *ANY* public office for 2-3 terms, then they are required to work in the private sector, not for the government, for at least one term before running for any office again. That'll keep them in touch with reality, something that most politicians seem to have a serious problem with.
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  10. #60
    Liberal Fascist For Life!

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    Re: Career politicans?

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    I hate to tell yea but not every individuals voice matters.

    One of the greatest scams of the 20th century was to convince everyone that they matter and that they deserve to be heard.

    You don't have a right to vote in federal elections, it doesn't exist.
    Really? And how are you going to stop me? In fact, who the hell are you to decide who should be able to vote and who should not?

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