View Poll Results: What would you do with career politicians?

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  • Keep things as they are.

    11 26.83%
  • Eliminate them through mandatory term limits.

    27 65.85%
  • Don't know / no opinion.

    3 7.32%
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Thread: Career politicans?

  1. #41
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    Re: Career politicans?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dav View Post
    A democratic republic. You'll notice that voting is mentioned in the Constitution, but limits on who gets to vote is not.
    I understand that, but I think they believed that eventually everyone would be informed enough to were them voting wouldn't be a detriment.

    Unfortunately that hasn't come to pass yet.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dav View Post
    Voting for your own superiority doesn't just mean voting yourself money. See Jim Crow laws.
    Oh by the way, living in NOVA means knowing a lot of people who work for the government, including within my immediate family. They're no different from any other people. Why they shouldn't get to vote is beyond me.
    Again voting yourself any privilege of benefit will disqualify you from voting.
    Having greater rights over another will disqualify you.

    People who are employed by the government have a direct advantage of keeping their employment even if it's beyond useless.

    They can form their own voting block and politicians will pander to give them greater benefits much like teachers unions do.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dav View Post
    Isn't our whole government based on the rule of man? After all, it's "We the People", not "We the Few".
    Our government is based on "leave me alone to do as I wish as long as I don't hurt anyone else."

    Equality under the law, the law is supposed to be unemotional and impartial.
    The law doesn't cry because Johnny has more than Sally. As long as Johnny doesn't steal from Sally.
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
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  2. #42
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    Re: Career politicans?

    Quote Originally Posted by nerv14 View Post
    Are you kidding me!

    Sounds like the makeup of a sham-democracy.

    You can limit what the government can do, or you can even alter ellections with the ellectoral college, but one person-one vote is the only way to go.


    If you can limit some people from voting (except from limited cases of people in prison, which is still bull****) then it can grow to take out whoever society feels like it.

    There is no way to only have the "best" people vote, if that was possible, then we wouldn't need democracy. Only a near-universal consensus of people can have any just government.
    I'm quite serious, actually.

    It's real simple: You want to vote, put your ass on the line and earn it.

    Perhaps if people had to earn the right themselves, more people would take it seriously.

  3. #43
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    Re: Career politicans?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dav View Post
    The protection is not of the people who get to vote for their representative, but the people who don't get to vote and are affected by the choice anyways.

    For example, when a state elects its Senators, those Senators make decisions that affect the whole country. In a perfect world all Senators would be equal, but this is not the case: the more someone stays in the Senate, the more power they have. Now, a state is going to want to grab all the power it can get, so it re-elects and re-elects its Senators, however crappy they are. The only way to stop this cycle is to put term limits on the Senate.
    Senators are elected to support their state. It is completely appropriate, in that context, for them to do things that will help their state and constituents. They need not worry about others...not why they were elected.

    Hmmm...are you all saying that it is important to consider the federal government in this, not just the states?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    This is what I hate about politics the most, it turns people in snobbish egotistical self righteous dicks who allow their political beliefs, partisan attitudes, and 'us vs. them' mentality, to force them to deny reality.

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    You can't paint everone with the same brush.......It does not work tht way.


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    See with you around Captain we don't even have to make arguments, as you already know everything .
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    It a person has faith they dont need to convince another of it, and when a non believer is not interested in listening to the word of the lord, " you shake the dust from your sandels and move on"

  4. #44
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    Re: Career politicans?

    But doing so (in your absolute sense) would create an overall organizational culture that while utilizing our democratic principles by being constantly concerned with the public, would also be hindered by that same responsibility, perhaps to the determent of an abstract good policy or tangible results for the American public.
    Last edited by Fiddytree; 06-28-09 at 01:34 AM.
    ​"No religion is true, but some religion, any religion, is politically necessary. Law and morality are insufficient for the large majority of men. Obedience to the law and to the morals are insufficient for making men happy. […]Law and morality are therefore in need of being supplemented by divine rewards and punishments."

  5. #45
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    Re: Career politicans?

    I am for term limits and I would go one further and create a general fund for all donations that are devided evenly among all competeing cadidates. I think the general fund would help remove two problems that I think we have now. The first being the person with the biggest bank account has a clear advantage over other cadidates and the second being corruption and favors granted to those that have funded the cadidate.

  6. #46
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    Re: Career politicans?

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    I understand that, but I think they believed that eventually everyone would be informed enough to were them voting wouldn't be a detriment.

    Unfortunately that hasn't come to pass yet.
    You could inform the crap out of someone and they're not going to change their mind. Being "informed" means nothing, and "misinformed" voters are not the problem. The problem is people being more loyal to their party than their country.

    Again voting yourself any privilege of benefit will disqualify you from voting.
    Having greater rights over another will disqualify you.
    A paradox. If you can vote, and others cannot, you already have greater rights over another. You decide how the country works, they just get to sit and watch even though it affects them too.

    People who are employed by the government have a direct advantage of keeping their employment even if it's beyond useless.

    They can form their own voting block and politicians will pander to give them greater benefits much like teachers unions do.
    Unless a majority of the country is a government worker it would be kind of hard to vote themselves benefits on their own.

    Our government is based on "leave me alone to do as I wish as long as I don't hurt anyone else."

    Equality under the law, the law is supposed to be unemotional and impartial.
    The law doesn't cry because Johnny has more than Sally. As long as Johnny doesn't steal from Sally.
    That has nothing to do with what I said, which is that our government is based on the consent of the governed, not the consent of a select few of the governed.

  7. #47
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    Re: Career politicans?

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainCourtesy View Post
    Senators are elected to support their state.
    Incorrect. Senators are elected to REPRESENT their state. They work for the Federal Government.

    It is completely appropriate, in that context, for them to do things that will help their state and constituents.
    No, it is not. They work for the Federal government, not the states that elect them. Why should I see MY tax dollars go to building some Senator's pet project in another state?

    They need not worry about others...not why they were elected
    They were elected to help the country, not their state.

    Hmmm...are you all saying that it is important to consider the federal government in this, not just the states?
    In the context of Congress, yes, they ARE the Federal government, and therefore the Federal government should be more important to them than the states.

  8. #48
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    Re: Career politicans?

    We have term limits on the president we should have term limits on other offices too.
    "A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within. An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for he is known and carries his banner openly. But the traitor moves amongst those within the gate freely, his sly whispers rustling through all the alleys, heard in the very halls of government itself. For the traitor appears not a traitor; he speaks in accents familiar to his victims, and he wears their face and their arguments, he appeals to the baseness that lies deep in the hearts of all men. He rots the soul of a nation, he works secretly and unknown in the night to undermine the pillars of the city, he infects the body politic so that it can no longer resist. A murder is less to fear"

    Cicero Marcus Tullius

  9. #49
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    Re: Career politicans?

    Limiting franchise is something I've thought about at times, beginning when I read Heinlein's Starship Troopers. The novels he referred to as his "juveniles" often had deeper themes than 99% of what is written for mature adults.

    Given how ignorantly and selfishly many people exercise their franchise, I'm not sure it would be the worst thing to limit it a bit.

    The key component to me would be that franchise had to be earned, and that the requirements were such that any person who was willing to make some sacrifices and put forth the effort had the opportunity to earn franchise.

    This would prevent it from creating a ruling class and a ruled class.

    The Heinlein model of having to do two years of "national service" to obtain franchise was not a bad one. In the novel, he noted that anyone who insisted on doing national service was entitled to being accepted, that "if you were blind and in a wheelchair, if you insisted on doing your two years they'd find something you could do, even if it was counting the hairs on a caterpillar by touch."

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  10. #50
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    Re: Career politicans?

    As well as having term limits I also think we should ban carpet bagging.
    For those who do not know what carpet bagging is it where politicians run in states or districts they are not residents of or politicians who have their residency changed to another state or district for a few years so they can meet the residency requirement in order to run for office there.
    "A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within. An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for he is known and carries his banner openly. But the traitor moves amongst those within the gate freely, his sly whispers rustling through all the alleys, heard in the very halls of government itself. For the traitor appears not a traitor; he speaks in accents familiar to his victims, and he wears their face and their arguments, he appeals to the baseness that lies deep in the hearts of all men. He rots the soul of a nation, he works secretly and unknown in the night to undermine the pillars of the city, he infects the body politic so that it can no longer resist. A murder is less to fear"

    Cicero Marcus Tullius

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