View Poll Results: What would you do with career politicians?

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  • Keep things as they are.

    11 26.83%
  • Eliminate them through mandatory term limits.

    27 65.85%
  • Don't know / no opinion.

    3 7.32%
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Thread: Career politicans?

  1. #11
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    Re: Career politicans?

    Quote Originally Posted by celticlord View Post
    How do you define "good job"?
    That would depend on the person in office.

    Are bridges to nowhere funded by out-of-state taxpayers a "good job"? Or are they "damage"?
    I would need more information to make a determination. Further, ONE issue does not define whether someone does a good job or not. Should you get fired because you were late for work, once?

    The problem with Congressmen/Senators for life is that their continuance in office necessitates overriding loyalty to a cadre of special interests that to fund re-election, rather than representing the interests of an entire constituency or the whole of the state and/or nation.
    You are making an argument against something I never made. I never said that public officials should be in office for life. Let the people decide when they leave or not.

    Now, I do not disagree with you on the issue of special interest groups, but I see that as something to be managed from within the system; not to make the system based on the fear of it.

    Term limits and greater congressional turn-over would break the power of K street and PACs across the board.
    Or it would reduce continuity and create a never-ending cycle of new folks managing things. There is a ying and a yang to this.
    "Never fear. Him is here" - Captain Chaos (Dom DeLuise), Cannonball Run

    Mace Windu: Then our worst fears have been realized. We must move quickly if the Jedi Order is to survive.

    ====||:-D

    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    This is what I hate about politics the most, it turns people in snobbish egotistical self righteous dicks who allow their political beliefs, partisan attitudes, and 'us vs. them' mentality, to force them to deny reality.

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    You can't paint everone with the same brush.......It does not work tht way.


    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    See with you around Captain we don't even have to make arguments, as you already know everything .
    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    Had you been born elsewhere or at a different time you may very well have chosen a different belief system.
    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    It a person has faith they dont need to convince another of it, and when a non believer is not interested in listening to the word of the lord, " you shake the dust from your sandels and move on"

  2. #12
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    Re: Career politicans?

    I guess I approach it from this angle.

    Why do we have term limits for the Presidency? And why shouldn't that reason apply to any other elected representative?
    "Loyalty only matters when there's a hundred reasons not to be-" Gen. Mattis

  3. #13
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    Re: Career politicans?

    Quote Originally Posted by celticlord View Post
    Ronald Reagan
    William Jefferson Clinton
    George W. Bush

    History disproves your thesis.
    Reagan did alot of work in his second term, but Clinton and Bush really didn't do very much.

    So my observation is true.


    Of course presidents can still make congress take action in their second term, but it is much rarer.

    And remember, if a president accomplishes something that doesn't require the consensus of their fellow politicians, then that won't be effected by term limits. So most foreign affairs and the president's influence over the military is not effected by term limits.

  4. #14
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    Re: Career politicans?

    Quote Originally Posted by Goshin View Post
    The problem there is, it rarely ever happens.
    Then that is a different issue. What you seem to be saying is that we do not have a well-informed populace and more regulations should be placed. The people need to be protected. Am I getting your right?

    One example of someone I despise is Senator Ted Kennedy. Through his family connections in part, but chiefly his seniority in the Senate, he amassed disproportionate power as one of two senators from the not-THAT-important state of Massachusetts. At one time this man was probably among the ten most powerful individuals in the country. I never got to vote against him, because I am not in Mass.
    Just because you despise Ted Kennedy, doesn't mean others (especially those in Massachusetts) do, or that he is terrible. I happen to like him quite a bit.

    Examples from my own state would be Strom Thurmond and Fritz Hollings. Two senior senators, they weren't quite in Teddy's league but they were far more powerful though seniority and influence established over long service than would be warranted by two senators from South Carolina, a smallish and relatively rural state.
    So, the people in South Carolina didn't/don't like these two Senators, and need protecting from themselves.

    I am for term limits. I'll go one step further and say we ought to put a cap on how many years someone may serve as an elected representative period. If we put 2-term limits on everything, a fellow could still serve 2 terms as a State Rep, 2 terms as a State Senator, 2 terms each as a Federal Rep and Senator, 2 terms as a State Governor, then 2 terms as Prez....totalling 44 years in public office as a professional politician. I say cap it at two terms each AND a maximum of 20 years as an elected official cumulative total.
    I don't agree. I see public service as any other job. You do well, you keep your job. You don't, you get fired. It's up to the people to fire them.

    When they KNOW that they are going to stop being a member of the "ruling class" within a certain amount of time, and go back to being one of the "little people", they might be a tad less inclined to screw us over. It would also put a cap on how much power they can accumulate over a lifetime of "public service".
    Or, they might steal us blind, knowing that they only have a limited amount of time to do so. Again, there is not just one way to look at this.
    "Never fear. Him is here" - Captain Chaos (Dom DeLuise), Cannonball Run

    Mace Windu: Then our worst fears have been realized. We must move quickly if the Jedi Order is to survive.

    ====||:-D

    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    This is what I hate about politics the most, it turns people in snobbish egotistical self righteous dicks who allow their political beliefs, partisan attitudes, and 'us vs. them' mentality, to force them to deny reality.

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    You can't paint everone with the same brush.......It does not work tht way.


    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    See with you around Captain we don't even have to make arguments, as you already know everything .
    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    Had you been born elsewhere or at a different time you may very well have chosen a different belief system.
    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    It a person has faith they dont need to convince another of it, and when a non believer is not interested in listening to the word of the lord, " you shake the dust from your sandels and move on"

  5. #15
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    Re: Career politicans?

    Quote Originally Posted by nerv14 View Post
    Currently I am for term limits because of the entrenched influence that a president or other politician gains.

    However, there is problems with term limits, that are very evident for presidents... where after their first term they don't have the leverage to do very much for their second term.

    I forgot the president... but some presidential dude in the 19th century said that he would only be in office for ONE term, and because of that he had no way of rallying congress to do anything.
    Rutherford B. Hayes.
    "Never fear. Him is here" - Captain Chaos (Dom DeLuise), Cannonball Run

    Mace Windu: Then our worst fears have been realized. We must move quickly if the Jedi Order is to survive.

    ====||:-D

    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    This is what I hate about politics the most, it turns people in snobbish egotistical self righteous dicks who allow their political beliefs, partisan attitudes, and 'us vs. them' mentality, to force them to deny reality.

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    You can't paint everone with the same brush.......It does not work tht way.


    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    See with you around Captain we don't even have to make arguments, as you already know everything .
    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    Had you been born elsewhere or at a different time you may very well have chosen a different belief system.
    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    It a person has faith they dont need to convince another of it, and when a non believer is not interested in listening to the word of the lord, " you shake the dust from your sandels and move on"

  6. #16
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    Re: Career politicans?

    Quote Originally Posted by danarhea View Post
    I disagree with you, and here is why:

    1) If somebody is doing a good job, that is great. However, considering how many other people there are, there will always be someone else who can do a good job too.
    I'm sure there are other folks who can do your job just as well. Shall we fire you? See the analogy?

    2) The risk of a politician becoming corrupt outweighs by far the good that could come because of that rare politician who does a good job. The vast majority of politicians were once honest people, but were corrupted by the system. It's just human nature. Absolute power corrupts absolutely.
    In a lot of cases, I agree with you. So, the folks that become corrupted get voted out.
    "Never fear. Him is here" - Captain Chaos (Dom DeLuise), Cannonball Run

    Mace Windu: Then our worst fears have been realized. We must move quickly if the Jedi Order is to survive.

    ====||:-D

    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    This is what I hate about politics the most, it turns people in snobbish egotistical self righteous dicks who allow their political beliefs, partisan attitudes, and 'us vs. them' mentality, to force them to deny reality.

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    You can't paint everone with the same brush.......It does not work tht way.


    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    See with you around Captain we don't even have to make arguments, as you already know everything .
    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    Had you been born elsewhere or at a different time you may very well have chosen a different belief system.
    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    It a person has faith they dont need to convince another of it, and when a non believer is not interested in listening to the word of the lord, " you shake the dust from your sandels and move on"

  7. #17
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    Re: Career politicans?

    Quote Originally Posted by WI Crippler View Post
    I guess I approach it from this angle.

    Why do we have term limits for the Presidency? And why shouldn't that reason apply to any other elected representative?
    Term limits came on the Presidency after FDR, mainly because Reoublicans could not beat him, thus the Republican Congress enacted term limits. The actual practice was begun by Washington, because he felt it would prevent any potential dictatorship that may arise from corruption of holding office too long. It usually only applies to executive branches of federal and state government, not legislatures. If the people wanted them, fine, as long as it is determined by the people that is all that matters in my opinion.

  8. #18
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    Re: Career politicans?

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainCourtesy View Post
    You are making an argument against something I never made. I never said that public officials should be in office for life. Let the people decide when they leave or not.

    Now, I do not disagree with you on the issue of special interest groups, but I see that as something to be managed from within the system; not to make the system based on the fear of it.
    True, you did not say they should be in office for life.

    However, as the low turnover rate in the Congress, when coupled with the low approval rate of Congress (36% approval as of the latest polling data), demonstrates, without term limits, they effectively become politicians "for life", and govern accordingly (which is to say, horribly).

    As Lord Acton stated most succinctly: "Power corrupts".

    Term limits limit power, and thus limit corruption.

  9. #19
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    Re: Career politicans?

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainCourtesy View Post
    In a lot of cases, I agree with you. So, the folks that become corrupted get voted out.
    John Murtha
    Ted Stevens
    Charles Rangel
    Dan Rostenkowski

    If the corrupt ones actually did get voted out, you would have a point. Problem is, they do not.

  10. #20
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    Re: Career politicans?

    The advantages that incumbents have, in seniority-based power and fundraising capacity, are such that challengers rarely succeed.

    Term limits would level that field a bit and give someone else a chance.

    Politics is NOT like everyone else's job, because they run the country. We don't need people who think of themselves as part of the professional ruling class, above the common herd.


    I would almost rather pick Congress at random, out of a hat, than what we currently have in DC.

    Fiddling While Rome Burns
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    "I used to roll the dice; see the fear in my enemies' eyes... listen as the crowd would sing, 'now the old king is dead, Long Live the King.'.."

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