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Thread: Does having the right to something...?

  1. #1
    Banned Goobieman's Avatar
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    Does having the right to something...?

    Does having the right to (x) mean that you have the right to have others provide you the means to exercise your right to (x)?

    Please be sure to explain your answer.

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    Re: Does having the right to something...?

    You mean like....... when African Americans began having the right to vote? Although they had the right to vote, they didn't have the means to vote because of poll taxes, "voter qualification" exams, literacy tests (grandfather clause), etc, etc.

    I believe those obstacles are inherently wrong, and an obstruction to that right which is granted by the government. But this is very different from "providing" the means to exercise that right.
    Last edited by Lightdemon; 06-24-09 at 01:33 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by UtahBill View Post
    Let the public school provide the basics, you as the parent can do the fine tuning.

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    Harry Guerrilla's Avatar
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    Re: Does having the right to something...?

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    Does having the right to (x) mean that you have the right to have others provide you the means to exercise your right to (x)?

    Please be sure to explain your answer.
    Of course not, no one owes anyone anything in this world unless they have been legally wronged.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lightdemon View Post
    You mean like....... when African Americans began having the right to vote? Although they had the right to vote, they didn't have the means to vote because of poll taxes, "voter qualification" exams, literacy tests (grandfather clause), etc, etc.
    I have never understood why having a test to make sure someone can read was ever a problem.

    If you can't be bothered to learn to read you should not be voting, you are most likely a moron.

    (not you specifically, but you in the general sense)
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
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    Re: Does having the right to something...?

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    I have never understood why having a test to make sure someone can read was ever a problem.

    If you can't be bothered to learn to read you should not be voting, you are most likely a moron.

    (not you specifically, but you in the general sense)
    Unless of course, you're an immigrant who can speak 8 different languages but does not speak English, of which the literacy test is based on...

    Illiteracy in English =/= Stupid
    Quote Originally Posted by UtahBill View Post
    Let the public school provide the basics, you as the parent can do the fine tuning.

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    Re: Does having the right to something...?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lightdemon View Post
    Unless of course, you're an immigrant who can speak 8 different languages but does not speak English, of which the literacy test is based on...

    Illiteracy in English =/= Stupid
    Of course, but then it shouldn't be a big deal to learn English.
    I'd rather leave some out for the short term than include a lot who shouldn't.

    I have a lot of respect for immigrants in the U.S., to the extent that they are more American than the natives are.
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
    —Adam Shepard

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    Banned Goobieman's Avatar
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    Re: Does having the right to something...?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lightdemon View Post
    You mean like....... when African Americans began having the right to vote? Although they had the right to vote, they didn't have the means to vote because of poll taxes, "voter qualification" exams, literacy tests (grandfather clause), etc, etc.
    I was thinking more along the lines of the right to property, etc.

    BUT, in the case you present -- if someone needs to pay a poll tax to vote, deos he then have the right to have other people pay it for him?

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    Re: Does having the right to something...?

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    I have a lot of respect for immigrants in the U.S., to the extent that they are more American than the natives are.
    I often see this as well, though not all the time.

    About the literacy tests, I was speaking more to the slaves who were recently released of their servitude, of which did not provide writing/reading lessons. The mass majority of freed slaves, having the right to vote, at the same time unable to exercise their right to vote because an obstruction set up by the State Government. This was directed at Former Slaves because of the addition of the Grandfather clause, which exempted the white folks from having to take the literacy test (which itself is almost impossible to pass for the average person at the time because of the illiteracy rates, regardless of skin color).

    It's like the government is giving you a right, but then adding all sorts of requirements to them that were not there before. The government is essentially giving a right to nothing.
    Quote Originally Posted by UtahBill View Post
    Let the public school provide the basics, you as the parent can do the fine tuning.

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    Re: Does having the right to something...?

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    I was thinking more along the lines of the right to property, etc.

    BUT, in the case you present -- if someone needs to pay a poll tax to vote, deos he then have the right to have other people pay it for him?
    No, he does not have that right. His right should not force someone else to lose their right (in this case, the right to property; money).
    Quote Originally Posted by UtahBill View Post
    Let the public school provide the basics, you as the parent can do the fine tuning.

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    Re: Does having the right to something...?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lightdemon View Post
    Unless of course, you're an immigrant who can speak 8 different languages but does not speak English, of which the literacy test is based on...

    Illiteracy in English =/= Stupid
    If someone cannot speak English their mastery of other languages is irrelevant.

    We are an English-speaking nation and if you want to participate in our governing process you should be socially integrated.

    Can't read? Shouldn't be able to vote.

    Don't speak English? Shouldn't be able to vote.

    Net tax consumer? Shouldn't be able to vote.

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    Re: Does having the right to something...?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lightdemon View Post
    I often see this as well, though not all the time.
    I have some neighbors that I'm assuming are from India and they are willing to live in tighter conditions with more family inside a small space to save money.
    On top of all that they keep their place very clean.

    I see many of Americas poor not willing to do these things to succeed.
    Immigrants know what true sacrifice is compared to the average individuals who live here.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lightdemon View Post
    About the literacy tests, I was speaking more to the slaves who were recently released of their servitude, of which did not provide writing/reading lessons. The mass majority of freed slaves, having the right to vote, at the same time unable to exercise their right to vote because an obstruction set up by the State Government. This was directed at Former Slaves because of the addition of the Grandfather clause, which exempted the white folks from having to take the literacy test (which itself is almost impossible to pass for the average person at the time because of the illiteracy rates, regardless of skin color).

    It's like the government is giving you a right, but then adding all sorts of requirements to them that were not there before. The government is essentially giving a right to nothing.
    That makes sense, I was referring to the general sense of it though.

    Having some sort of self directed education and work ethic should be part of a requirement to vote. Its hard to test but I think worth the quality of people you would have voting.
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
    —Adam Shepard

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