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Thread: Does having the right to something...?

  1. #11
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    Re: Does having the right to something...?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ethereal View Post
    We are an English-speaking nation and if you want to participate in our governing process you should be socially integrated.
    Do you know what social enclaves are? Speaking the language or not, does not determine whether you are socially integrated.

    Can't read? Shouldn't be able to vote.

    Don't speak English? Shouldn't be able to vote.
    This does not mean that they do not understand how the government works. Furthermore, if they are allowed time to translate it themselves, or for them, this would be irrelevant.
    Quote Originally Posted by UtahBill View Post
    Let the public school provide the basics, you as the parent can do the fine tuning.

  2. #12
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    Re: Does having the right to something...?

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    I was thinking more along the lines of the right to property, etc.

    BUT, in the case you present -- if someone needs to pay a poll tax to vote, deos he then have the right to have other people pay it for him?
    I think it depends on the use. Poll taxes are terrible at least in the way I take it as a fee necessary to pay before you're allowed to vote. In that sense, they have to be illegal, but if somehow we were going to implement something like that, then in order to make it useless I would say a person has the right to demand payment from the government. But this is because the right of the individual is being infringed upon in this case, there's no reason to charge someone especially as method to prevent certain classes from voting. As the People own the government, it being their property, being charged to manage their property in this manner (something so fundamental to keeping a Democratic Republic such as voting) should come with equal compensation for having done so.

    Actually, scratch all that. Cause even all that allows for too much government abuse. In theory, I think they should be able to force the government to pay a poll tax. In practice, a poll tax must be kept explicitly illegal.

    In terms of other things, depends on the right. But property things such as guns and the like; no. You are free to exercise your rights, but must fund the means by which to do so given there are not excessive government limitations and taxes making it impractical to exercise a right.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

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    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

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    Re: Does having the right to something...?

    if someone else has to pay for it, if you have to pay for it, if it costs money, it ain't a right.

    Y'alls got a right to life. Y'alls ain't got a right to food, water, air, shelter. You have to work to get those.

    Y'alls got a right to freedom of speech, y'alls got to buy youse own radio station if you want to be broadcast.

  4. #14
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    Re: Does having the right to something...?

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    Does having the right to (x) mean that you have the right to have others provide you the means to exercise your right to (x)?

    Please be sure to explain your answer.
    If you have the right to something it means that it is something you already have to begin with- life, liberty, etc. It cannot be given, only taken away.

  5. #15
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    Re: Does having the right to something...?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lightdemon View Post
    Do you know what social enclaves are? Speaking the language or not, does not determine whether you are socially integrated.
    Yessir, we do.

    The short word you're looking for that provides the emotional impact all those syllables mask is "ghetto".


    Quote Originally Posted by Lightdemon View Post
    This does not mean that they do not understand how the government works. Furthermore, if they are allowed time to translate it themselves, or for them, this would be irrelevant.
    If they're too self-important to learn the language my government is run in, they're just too damn special to be voting for people in my government.

  6. #16
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    Re: Does having the right to something...?

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    Of course not, no one owes anyone anything in this world unless they have been legally wronged.
    Agreed

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    I have never understood why having a test to make sure someone can read was ever a problem.
    Then you mite want to study up on your history in the US.

    The example used was with blacks. At the time most blacks could not read because it was illegal for them to do so as slaves. The laws put in place were specifically targeted at the former slaves to keep them from voting.

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    If you can't be bothered to learn to read you should not be voting, you are most likely a moron.

    (not you specifically, but you in the general sense)
    In modern times this is true, but not back in the time of slavery and Jim Crow.
    Last edited by Black Dog; 06-24-09 at 03:34 PM.


    No Lives Matter

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    Re: Does having the right to something...?

    Quote Originally Posted by Scarecrow Akhbar View Post
    Yessir, we do.

    The short word you're looking for that provides the emotional impact all those syllables mask is "ghetto".
    Uh...no.

    [ame=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethnoburb]Ethnoburb - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/ame]

    If they're too self-important to learn the language my government is run in, they're just too damn special to be voting for people in my government.
    So much for universal suffrage.
    Quote Originally Posted by UtahBill View Post
    Let the public school provide the basics, you as the parent can do the fine tuning.

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    Re: Does having the right to something...?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lightdemon View Post
    Speaking the language or not, does not determine whether you are socially integrated.
    How can a person be considered socially integrated when they're incapable of communicating with the vast majority of society?

    This does not mean that they do not understand how the government works. Furthermore, if they are allowed time to translate it themselves, or for them, this would be irrelevant.
    Or they could just learn to speak the language which defines American culture.

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    Re: Does having the right to something...?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lightdemon View Post
    Uh...no.

    Ethnoburb - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



    So much for universal suffrage.
    Who ever said universal suffrage was a good idea? Look what got elected last November, if you want to see what's wrong with that idea.

    At a minimum, people should be literate in the language of the government before they should be allowed to participate in the selection of that government.

    Better, people should be paying taxes before they get a vote on who decides how that tax money is spent.

    Ideally, the people should be literate, taxpayers, and military veterans, since vets have demonstrated a willingness to sacrifice their one and only body for the benefit of the republic.
    Last edited by Scarecrow Akhbar; 06-24-09 at 04:31 PM.

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    Re: Does having the right to something...?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ethereal View Post
    How can a person be considered socially integrated when they're incapable of communicating with the vast majority of society?
    Because one does not preclude the other. Many immigrants who live in cultural enclaves live well adjusted lives without having to learn English. This in no way means that they are anti-American, anti-English, etc. Why should this bar them from having a voice in the country they live in?

    Much like how states want their sovereignty from their federal government, cultural enclaves feel the same way about their state/city.

    Or they could just learn to speak the language which defines American culture.
    BS. The English language does no such thing.
    Quote Originally Posted by UtahBill View Post
    Let the public school provide the basics, you as the parent can do the fine tuning.

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