View Poll Results: Would you allow your child to read and post on debatepolitics.com?

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  • Only if I supervised the participation

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Thread: Would you allow your 13 year old child on this forum?

  1. #71
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    Re: Would you allow your 13 year old child on this forum?

    Quote Originally Posted by Agnapostate View Post
    Actually, this itself muddles the issue somewhat, IMO. Internet sexual predation (which is more limited in scope even when it occurs than indicated by popular misconception, as previously mentioned; I don't believe that mere mention of sexual topics constitutes predation, and even rates of direct solicitation are inflated somewhat by researchers) directed toward prepubescent children (which typically isn't the issue focused on as much as Internet predation directed toward adolescent minors is, at any rate) is an indication of the disorder, but certainly not definitive proof, as you mentioned. However, even engagement in actual CSA is not necessarily sufficient for diagnosis, since the potential to be a situational offender without suffering from the disorder also exists. But nonetheless, you'll of course understand that it was necessary for me to make the clarification. The term "pedophile" is inaccurately used as being synonymous with any individual who engages in a sexual interaction with someone under the age of majority. As with the term "terrorist," disingenuous misrepresentations and distortions of accurate definitions can create the possibility for the usage of "amended" terms in ideological warfare.
    It is true that the term pedophile is often misused. Much of what you say is accurate, though some clarifications are necessary. Mentioning sexual topics towards a prepubescent child, in a specific context, is a strong indicator of internet predation. I am not claiming absolutes. here, but these kinds of behaviors are warning signs. Also, a situational offender may or may not be a diagnosable pedophile. It depends on the co-morbidity of other disorders, but also depends on other symptoms. Again, this is not so clear cut and dry.

    This is not an epidemic, but the problem certainly exists.

    It's not a matter of slight distortion by media interests; it's a matter of the effective manufacture of alleged "realities" that are actually nonexistent through the utilization of mendaciously crafted propaganda designed to prey on primal fears. Do you have empirical data that indicates that Internet-based sexual predation is at least a relatively major phenomenon?
    I don't agree that it's been manufactured. The problem exists. I also don't agree that it is a major phenomenon...I never claimed that it was.

    I didn't claim otherwise; it's not necessary in order for us to still acknowledge the general reality of parents as a whole being more likely to commit violent actions against their children than Internet predators.
    This may be true, but from a relative standpoint, for some it is more likely to be harmed by an internet predator than a violent parent. Kinda like the warning about the likelihood of hearing gun shots in Beverly Hills vs. downtown Detroit.
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  2. #72
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    Re: Would you allow your 13 year old child on this forum?

    Quote Originally Posted by Agnapostate View Post
    I agree (and wouldn't even recommend extensive regulation prior to that, actually), but I strongly doubt that others here would.
    Obviously this would depend on the child's age and ability.

    Quote Originally Posted by Agnapostate View Post

    Of course not. But even claiming that Internet sexual predation against children is a relatively major risk seems statistically dubious to me.
    No, the point is not to say that half the people they meet on the net will be pedophiles but simply that because you don't know who they are they could be anyone including pedophiles or any other kind of pervert or nutter. Stories come out on the news for discussion.

    Really I think it just comes under basic understanding of the internet and self preservation.

  3. #73
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    Re: Would you allow your 13 year old child on this forum?

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainCourtesy View Post
    It is true that the term pedophile is often misused. Much of what you say is accurate, though some clarifications are necessary. Mentioning sexual topics towards a prepubescent child, in a specific context, is a strong indicator of internet predation. I am not claiming absolutes. here, but these kinds of behaviors are warning signs. Also, a situational offender may or may not be a diagnosable pedophile. It depends on the co-morbidity of other disorders, but also depends on other symptoms. Again, this is not so clear cut and dry.
    In terms of discussion of such topics being an "indicator of internet predation," my libertarian sentiments of course also incline me to realize that application of such labels is merely one step closer to censorship empowered by disingenuous intellectual warfare that could ultimately constitute a far more negative element than mere discussion of said topics. I certainly didn't claim that anything was "clear cut and dry"; I merely thought it necessary to offer a clarification. Not all pedophiles are sexual offenders and not all sexual offenders against children are pedophiles. Even if the former assertion is accepted, some are prone to challenge the latter assertion no matter how detailed the explanation provided to them is, which is unfortunate.

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainCourtesy View Post
    I don't agree that it's been manufactured. The problem exists. I also don't agree that it is a major phenomenon...I never claimed that it was.
    Then I suppose it's a matter of mere subjectivity. I think the phenomenon is minor enough to warrant conversational mention of it anomalous. But then again, I also don't believe that restricting children's access to information of any sort serves any meaningful purpose to begin with, and am more often greeted with anecdotal speculation than legitimate responses when I request the provision of empirical evidence that indicates that some legitimate harm is caused to children through exposure to certain media. IMO, the converse is more likely to be true. As put by Richard Farson, "a child's ignorance is a strong political ally of adult society, and adults have learned to rely heavily on it...Women have now come to recognize how being excluded from businessmen's luncheon clubs where the power elite of the business world plan and decide, has systematically denied them access to the kinds of information they need to gain leadership positions. The same kind of exclusion takes place with children, only more so."

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainCourtesy View Post
    This may be true, but from a relative standpoint, for some it is more likely to be harmed by an internet predator than a violent parent. Kinda like the warning about the likelihood of hearing gun shots in Beverly Hills vs. downtown Detroit.
    Again, I don't disagree. The problem that I identify is that operating primarily from that approach may create an incomplete and ultimately incorrect depiction of the actual dangers that children face in both their homes and the Internet. I believe it should be made clear that as a whole, children are frankly far more likely to encounter violent abuse in the former.

    Quote Originally Posted by alexa View Post
    Obviously this would depend on the child's age and ability.
    I'd entirely scrap the former based on individual appraisal of the latter.

    Quote Originally Posted by alexa View Post
    No, the point is not to say that half the people they meet on the net will be pedophiles but simply that because you don't know who they are they could be anyone including pedophiles or any other kind of pervert or nutter. Stories come out on the news for discussion.
    We return to reliance on the television and print media, where obvious interests lie in attacking the credibility and the nature of the Internet, an increasingly powerful competitor. No, we technically *don't* know who many people on the Internet are, but I'm of the opinion that the premise that it's truly necessary for us to know because of safety concerns is ridiculously overinflated to begin with.

    Quote Originally Posted by alexa View Post
    Really I think it just comes under basic understanding of the internet and self preservation.
    No, I don't agree. I understand that you're trying to base this matter in "common sense" terms, but frankly, depicting an extreme statistical rarity as even a relatively moderate danger is inaccurate and we ought to acknowledge that reality.

  4. #74
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    Re: Would you allow your 13 year old child on this forum?

    one of the thing I find interesting is that as a 58yrs old father having fought in a war in 67, I was having a conversation with some American vets who asked if it was in Vietnam, I replied unfortunately not we did not have child prostitutes and ganja, they then took my response literally and regaled me with various tales they seemed proud of.

    This is not unique to that war.

    It also does not seem to emerge when they return home, in fact quite the reverse on face value, two vets of the Malaysian conflict in my area that I new when younger,also regaled me with these stories.

    They as grandparents lead a protest to have a registered sex offender removed from the area.

    Port Limon Costa Rica is a very popular Cruise Ship destination, security on some ships I know keep a very close eye on the passengers children right through the cruise, because they know why some passengers visit that place.


    I will not set foot in Thailand, the sight of some fat Westerner on a moped with a very young child on the pillion is to much for me.

    I have to much respect for myself to lend the slightest credibility to countries that have thriving sex tourism industries.

    Do you visit these countries?
    Last edited by B L Zeebub; 06-24-09 at 06:02 AM.

  5. #75
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    Re: Would you allow your 13 year old child on this forum?

    Quote Originally Posted by Agnapostate View Post

    I'd entirely scrap the former based on individual appraisal of the latter.
    what are you talking about?

    Quote Originally Posted by Agnapostate View Post

    We return to reliance on the television and print media, where obvious interests lie in attacking the credibility and the nature of the Internet, an increasingly powerful competitor. No, we technically *don't* know who many people on the Internet are, but I'm of the opinion that the premise that it's truly necessary for us to know because of safety concerns is ridiculously overinflated to begin with.
    we rely on hearing of news that this has happened and discussing this with our children. It is you who has the problem with the number.

    Quote Originally Posted by Agnapostate View Post

    No, I don't agree. I understand that you're trying to base this matter in "common sense" terms, but frankly, depicting an extreme statistical rarity as even a relatively moderate danger is inaccurate and we ought to acknowledge that reality.
    Again it is you who has the problem with the number. Not making your child aware of situations which could be dangerous to that child is negligence.

  6. #76
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    Re: Would you allow your 13 year old child on this forum?

    Quote Originally Posted by alexa View Post
    what are you talking about?
    I'd entirely scrap consideration of age based on individual appraisal of liberty. There's many a 12 year old that's more mature than a 16 year old, and many a 16 year old that's more mature than a 26 year old, for that matter.

    Quote Originally Posted by alexa View Post
    we rely on hearing of news that this has happened and discussing this with our children. It is you who has the problem with the number.
    No, what I have a problem with is anyone believing that tabloidism is a sufficient substitute for empirical research that indicates the opposite of what the propagandists care to assert.

    Quote Originally Posted by alexa View Post
    Again it is you who has the problem with the number. Not making your child aware of situations which could be dangerous to that child is negligence.
    Then have you provided similar information of the statistically greater dangers that your immediate and extended family pose than people on the Internet?

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    Re: Would you allow your 13 year old child on this forum?

    Quote Originally Posted by Goshin View Post
    There's way too much wild-, off-the-wall, crazy on here that his impressionable 13yo brain isn't ready to deal with.

    G.
    I have a 15 year old. I was amazed at the level of exposure that she had at middle school. I think you probably just don't know what his impressionable brain is dealing with daily.

  8. #78
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    Re: Would you allow your 13 year old child on this forum?

    Quote Originally Posted by Agnapostate View Post


    Then have you provided similar information of the statistically greater dangers that your immediate and extended family pose than people on the Internet?

    You clearly have a bee in your bonnet about this. It is off topic anyway except where it relates to internet safety in using this and any other site. Your suggestions are getting absurd.

  9. #79
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    Re: Would you allow your 13 year old child on this forum?

    I would not allow my 13-y/o to post on this board. Posting on message boards is a bad habit and a waste of perfectly good time. I am guilty as charged.

    I'd no more introduce my child to message boards than I'd introduce them to cigarettes.

    I've weaned myself off boards as much as possible but not been able to quit completely. Wish me luck!


  10. #80
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    Re: Would you allow your 13 year old child on this forum?

    Yes, under my supervision and definitely NO Basement.

    My kid and I talk about politics all the time and I often show her someone's post on here that will trigger an interesting discussion between the two of us.
    "Yes, but are you a Protestant atheist or a Catholic atheist?".- Northern Irish joke

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