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Thread: Would you allow your 13 year old child on this forum?

  1. #61
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    Re: Would you allow your 13 year old child on this forum?

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainCourtesy View Post
    That depends how you would defiine "pedophiles operation on the internet". Is it as much of a problem as the media may advertise? Not in as far as pedophiles luring children to them. But it most certainly exists and I have been involved in a number of cases where a child has been victimized. It is not something to be ignored.
    Then it's also necessary to consider the nature of "pedophiles," which you're of course aware of, but those who use the word in its colloquial sense would not be aware of. Pedophilia (as described in DSM-IV and the ICD) is a mental disorder wherein an individual is sexually attracted to prepubescent children. Alone, it constitutes no legal offense, and is thus distinct from child sexual abuse (CSA), which is in turn distinct from Internet predation which does not alone prove the existence of either of the other two. For example, that poster that came here a while ago and was eventually banned after he admitted his crimes was both a pedophile and a child sexual abuser, and confessed to being both.

    Moreover, while I don't deny the undoubtedly insightful value that your personal experience has brought you, we cannot pretend that anecdotal experiences are equivalent to empirical research based on statistical analysis of large data sets, simply because of the nature of the widely varying spectrum of human experiences and behaviors. For a quick analysis based on integration of several sources, I'd refer to sociologist Mike Males's Internet Safer for Kids than Church.

    Projected from their random sample to the 10,000 law enforcement agencies nationwide, the authors estimated perhaps 25 violent sex crimes against youths from online predators every year. By contrast, the 2006 Child Maltreatment study reports over 80,000 violent crimes, including 35,000 sex crimes, against teens age 12-17 every year perpetrated by their parents or caretakers. The dangers teens encounter online in a year are equal to about 6 hours of the danger they experience at home with their parents. Of course, many crimes against youth by internet predators no doubt go unreported, but so do most household crimes.
    But knowing the role of the media in tabloidism and reckless sensationalization of certain stories, it doesn't surprise me to see empirical research simply rejected by the mass majority of people who choose to watch To Catch A Predator instead.

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    Re: Would you allow your 13 year old child on this forum?

    Quote Originally Posted by Agnapostate View Post
    Then it's also necessary to consider the nature of "pedophiles," which you're of course aware of, but those who use the word in its colloquial sense would not be aware of. Pedophilia (as described in DSM-IV and the ICD) is a mental disorder wherein an individual is sexually attracted to prepubescent children. Alone, it constitutes no legal offense, and is thus distinct from child sexual abuse (CSA), which is in turn distinct from Internet predation which does not alone prove the existence of either of the other two. For example, that poster that came here a while ago and was eventually banned after he admitted his crimes was both a pedophile and a child sexual abuser, and confessed to being both.

    Moreover, while I don't deny the undoubtedly insightful value that your personal experience has brought you, we cannot pretend that anecdotal experiences are equivalent to empirical research based on statistical analysis of large data sets, simply because of the nature of the widely varying spectrum of human experiences and behaviors. For a quick analysis based on integration of several sources, I'd refer to sociologist Mike Males's Internet Safer for Kids than Church.



    But knowing the role of the media in tabloidism and reckless sensationalization of certain stories, it doesn't surprise me to see empirical research simply rejected by the mass majority of people who choose to watch To Catch A Predator instead.
    Are you suggesting that because there may be sensationalism which may make a situation appear more prevalent than it is, that we do not inform our children of dangers? I don't think anyone would want their child to be the one who is abused.

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    Re: Would you allow your 13 year old child on this forum?

    Quote Originally Posted by alexa View Post
    Are you suggesting that because there may be sensationalism which may make a situation appear more prevalent than it is, that we do not inform our children of dangers? I don't think anyone would want their child to be the one who is abused.
    Of course not, but will we be informing our children that they're statistically more likely to receive violent treatment at the hands of their parents than at the hands of "Internet predators" while we're at it?

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    Re: Would you allow your 13 year old child on this forum?

    Quote Originally Posted by Agnapostate View Post
    Of course not, but will we be informing our children that they're statistically more likely to receive violent treatment at the hands of their parents than at the hands of "Internet predators" while we're at it?
    Children can watch tv and gather their own information. The point is to protect. If that comes up in conversation then it will. If children are being abused by their parents they will be well aware of it.

    Anyone can be anyone on the net and say they are anyone and a child needs to know that, including all the sort of things that child abusers can get up to. That does not mean telling the child everyone is up to it but it means letting the child be aware they may be.

    I found it worked well letting my daughter be well aware of the potential dangers.

    Ecstasy for instance hardly ever kills and she was aware of this but also that it could kill. The fact that it could kill was a strong deterrent to her experimenting. For me, as her Mum, I do not want my child to be the one killed by ecstasy so I piled on that it did happen and did also say but extremely rarely and did also say, but you never know whether you will be the one.
    Last edited by alexa; 06-24-09 at 04:03 AM.

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    Re: Would you allow your 13 year old child on this forum?

    Quote Originally Posted by Agnapostate View Post
    Then it's also necessary to consider the nature of "pedophiles," which you're of course aware of, but those who use the word in its colloquial sense would not be aware of. Pedophilia (as described in DSM-IV and the ICD) is a mental disorder wherein an individual is sexually attracted to prepubescent children. Alone, it constitutes no legal offense, and is thus distinct from child sexual abuse (CSA), which is in turn distinct from Internet predation which does not alone prove the existence of either of the other two. For example, that poster that came here a while ago and was eventually banned after he admitted his crimes was both a pedophile and a child sexual abuser, and confessed to being both.
    This is somewhat true, but muddies the issue a bit. Being a pedophile, as defined by the DSM-IV is NOT a legal offense. Acting on that disorder, in all jurisdictions that I know of IS a legal offense. Internet predation of an adult towards a prepubescent child may not definitively indicate the disorder. However, if that predation is sexual in nature, diagnostically, the diagnosis can be given, ethically. Again, unless these issues are acted on, nothing illegal is happening.

    Moreover, while I don't deny the undoubtedly insightful value that your personal experience has brought you, we cannot pretend that anecdotal experiences are equivalent to empirical research based on statistical analysis of large data sets, simply because of the nature of the widely varying spectrum of human experiences and behaviors. For a quick analysis based on integration of several sources, I'd refer to sociologist Mike Males's Internet Safer for Kids than Church.
    Note the comments in my post. I did not claim that my anectodal evidence supported the theory that internet pedophiles were as much as a problem as the media portrays them. In fact, I disputed that. My claim is that the problem exists, perhaps not as much as folks believe, but it is there.

    And I would agree that places where pedophiles have easier physical access to children would be places where illegal activities would more likely occur.


    But knowing the role of the media in tabloidism and reckless sensationalization of certain stories, it doesn't surprise me to see empirical research simply rejected by the mass majority of people who choose to watch To Catch A Predator instead.
    Again, my position is NOT that the internet is rampant with pedophiles. Not what I claimed. My position is that these folks are not non-existent and are a danger, abait a lesser one that advertised.
    "Never fear. Him is here" - Captain Chaos (Dom DeLuise), Cannonball Run

    Mace Windu: Then our worst fears have been realized. We must move quickly if the Jedi Order is to survive.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    This is what I hate about politics the most, it turns people in snobbish egotistical self righteous dicks who allow their political beliefs, partisan attitudes, and 'us vs. them' mentality, to force them to deny reality.

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    You can't paint everone with the same brush.......It does not work tht way.


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    See with you around Captain we don't even have to make arguments, as you already know everything .
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    Had you been born elsewhere or at a different time you may very well have chosen a different belief system.
    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    It a person has faith they dont need to convince another of it, and when a non believer is not interested in listening to the word of the lord, " you shake the dust from your sandels and move on"

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    Re: Would you allow your 13 year old child on this forum?

    Quote Originally Posted by Agnapostate View Post
    Of course not, but will we be informing our children that they're statistically more likely to receive violent treatment at the hands of their parents than at the hands of "Internet predators" while we're at it?
    This is a bit of a fallacy. An individual whose parents have never been violent towards them is not more likely to be victimized by violent parents than an internet predator. One must look at this situation in relative terms.
    "Never fear. Him is here" - Captain Chaos (Dom DeLuise), Cannonball Run

    Mace Windu: Then our worst fears have been realized. We must move quickly if the Jedi Order is to survive.

    ====||:-D

    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    This is what I hate about politics the most, it turns people in snobbish egotistical self righteous dicks who allow their political beliefs, partisan attitudes, and 'us vs. them' mentality, to force them to deny reality.

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    You can't paint everone with the same brush.......It does not work tht way.


    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    See with you around Captain we don't even have to make arguments, as you already know everything .
    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    Had you been born elsewhere or at a different time you may very well have chosen a different belief system.
    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    It a person has faith they dont need to convince another of it, and when a non believer is not interested in listening to the word of the lord, " you shake the dust from your sandels and move on"

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    Re: Would you allow your 13 year old child on this forum?

    Quote Originally Posted by alexa View Post
    Children can watch tv and gather their own information. The point is to protect. If that comes up in conversation then it will. If children are being abused by their parents they will be well aware of it.

    Anyone can be anyone on the net and say they are anyone and a child needs to know that, including all the sort of things that child abusers can get up to. That does not mean telling the child everyone is up to it but it means letting the child be aware they may be.
    But that's the precise point. For the most part, extremely few people are deliberately concealing their identities on the Internet in order to conceal their intents of predation also. It's to that point that I generally don't believe that children or minors should suffer the imposition of excessive regulation or restriction of their Internet usage, just as one wouldn't reasonably expect women to suffer such, despite their physical vulnerability to more powerful men and potential for suffering predation in that regard.

    Quote Originally Posted by alexa View Post
    I found it worked well letting my daughter be well aware of the potential dangers.

    Ecstasy for instance hardly ever kills and she was aware of this but also that it could kill. The fact that it could kill was a strong deterrent to her experimenting. For me, as her Mum, I do not want my child to be the one killed by ecstasy so I piled on that it did happen and did also say but extremely rarely and did also say, but you never know whether you will be the one.
    Fear of extreme statistical rarities probably prevents us from enjoying life more than dismissal of them as incredibly unlikely would. While that's not an excuse to live dangerously or recklessly (which would render those extreme statistical rarities less so), there's a risk of crashing your car and dying on the highway, of slipping on a bar of soap in the shower and breaking your neck, of your house's roof inexplicably crashing in on you, etc. Irrational fear of those possibilities won't eliminate them anyway, and there is such a things as being excessively "involved" in that sense.

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    Re: Would you allow your 13 year old child on this forum?

    Quote Originally Posted by Agnapostate View Post
    But that's the precise point. For the most part, extremely few people are deliberately concealing their identities on the Internet in order to conceal their intents of predation also. It's to that point that I generally don't believe that children or minors should suffer the imposition of excessive regulation or restriction of their Internet usage, just as one wouldn't reasonably expect women to suffer such, despite their physical vulnerability to more powerful men and potential for suffering predation in that regard.
    And if children are aware of potential dangers then there is no need to regulate their internet activity when they are 13.

    Quote Originally Posted by Agnapostate View Post

    Fear of extreme statistical rarities probably prevents us from enjoying life more than dismissal of them as incredibly unlikely would. While that's not an excuse to live dangerously or recklessly (which would render those extreme statistical rarities less so), there's a risk of crashing your car and dying on the highway, of slipping on a bar of soap in the shower and breaking your neck, of your house's roof inexplicably crashing in on you, etc. Irrational fear of those possibilities won't eliminate them anyway, and there is such a things as being excessively "involved" in that sense.
    I knew that one was coming! I never told my daughter anything which was not the truth. She was doing gymnastics at 6 which is extremely dangerous - in fact too dangerous for her but when she developed a love of dance the constant danger of injury was not enough to stop her. She now teaches ballet and contemporary dance at a Professional college.

    You cannot get through life without taking risks but there are some risks there is no point in taking.

  9. #69
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    Re: Would you allow your 13 year old child on this forum?

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainCourtesy View Post
    This is somewhat true, but muddies the issue a bit. Being a pedophile, as defined by the DSM-IV is NOT a legal offense. Acting on that disorder, in all jurisdictions that I know of IS a legal offense. Internet predation of an adult towards a prepubescent child may not definitively indicate the disorder. However, if that predation is sexual in nature, diagnostically, the diagnosis can be given, ethically. Again, unless these issues are acted on, nothing illegal is happening.
    Actually, this itself muddles the issue somewhat, IMO. Internet sexual predation (which is more limited in scope even when it occurs than indicated by popular misconception, as previously mentioned; I don't believe that mere mention of sexual topics constitutes predation, and even rates of direct solicitation are inflated somewhat by researchers) directed toward prepubescent children (which typically isn't the issue focused on as much as Internet predation directed toward adolescent minors is, at any rate) is an indication of the disorder, but certainly not definitive proof, as you mentioned. However, even engagement in actual CSA is not necessarily sufficient for diagnosis, since the potential to be a situational offender without suffering from the disorder also exists. But nonetheless, you'll of course understand that it was necessary for me to make the clarification. The term "pedophile" is inaccurately used as being synonymous with any individual who engages in a sexual interaction with someone under the age of majority. As with the term "terrorist," disingenuous misrepresentations and distortions of accurate definitions can create the possibility for the usage of "amended" terms in ideological warfare.

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainCourtesy View Post
    Note the comments in my post. I did not claim that my anectodal evidence supported the theory that internet pedophiles were as much as a problem as the media portrays them. In fact, I disputed that. My claim is that the problem exists, perhaps not as much as folks believe, but it is there.

    And I would agree that places where pedophiles have easier physical access to children would be places where illegal activities would more likely occur.

    ...

    Again, my position is NOT that the internet is rampant with pedophiles. Not what I claimed. My position is that these folks are not non-existent and are a danger, abait a lesser one that advertised.
    It's not a matter of slight distortion by media interests; it's a matter of the effective manufacture of alleged "realities" that are actually nonexistent through the utilization of mendaciously crafted propaganda designed to prey on primal fears. Do you have empirical data that indicates that Internet-based sexual predation is at least a relatively major phenomenon?

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainCourtesy View Post
    This is a bit of a fallacy. An individual whose parents have never been violent towards them is not more likely to be victimized by violent parents than an internet predator. One must look at this situation in relative terms.
    I didn't claim otherwise; it's not necessary in order for us to still acknowledge the general reality of parents as a whole being more likely to commit violent actions against their children than Internet predators.

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    Re: Would you allow your 13 year old child on this forum?

    Quote Originally Posted by alexa View Post
    And if children are aware of potential dangers then there is no need to regulate their internet activity when they are 13.
    I agree (and wouldn't even recommend extensive regulation prior to that, actually), but I strongly doubt that others here would.

    Quote Originally Posted by alexa View Post
    You cannot get through life without taking risks but there are some risks there is no point in taking.
    Of course not. But even claiming that Internet sexual predation against children is a relatively major risk seems statistically dubious to me.

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