View Poll Results: Would you allow your child to read and post on debatepolitics.com?

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Thread: Would you allow your 13 year old child on this forum?

  1. #121
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    Re: Would you allow your 13 year old child on this forum?

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainCourtesy View Post
    I think the class he is taking is about economics. Asking a teacher of economics about economics would be completely appropriate.
    It's a trap!
    Let's figure it out.

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    Re: Would you allow your 13 year old child on this forum?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mira View Post
    Having been exposed to the harsh reality too early with the civil war that started in Lebanon when I was 11, I wanted my son to fully enjoy his childhood as much as possible.

    Only two years ago I subscribed him to a news magazine "Le Monde des Ados" designed for teens and now that he's 13 I encourage him to watch the news and ask questions.

    I don't want him to base his political learning on the net because there's too much baseless crap being spread around. A forum such as this one would be too confusing for him even if I supervised.

    I believe in the step by step learning and understanding of politics, not all at once.
    You bring up a different aspect here which hasn't really been addressed - that is how much being aware of politics is good to the security of a young person.

    My daughter had no interest in politics when she was growing up. She belonged to that generation who felt completely powerless concerning their ability to change anything and although I would try and engage her in discussions, she had no real involvement - always with the reason that nothing she could no would change anything. For her politics was something she just trusted to the country she was from, almost in retrospect like a kind of super parent figure.

    The change came for her with the Iraq war. I had warned her before the war of all my misgivings and she had listened for a short while and muttered really and oh in appropriate places but I was to discover later she had not taken in anything I had said. However when she discovered that Tony Blair had lied to us about weapons of mass destruction, she was totally shocked and temporarily devastated. Now she was around 22/23 at the time and her shock really surprised me because it wasn't until then that I realised that she had had this naive trust of our country.

    She had nightmares for a couple of nights and was disturbed for a week. Then it settled and she had a much more real, grown up and critical view of politics.

    This issue has not really been addressed.

    Being 12 at the time of the Cuba missile crises myself and growing up with the constant knowledge that we could be blown asunder in our sleeps by nuclear weapons certainly caused an unnecessary amount of fear in my childhood.

    I guess with a 13 year old I would still think they, well most of them, are well able to choose what they look at and come to their own decisions - but maybe there are other considerations.
    Last edited by alexa; 06-26-09 at 03:48 AM.

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    Re: Would you allow your 13 year old child on this forum?

    Quote Originally Posted by alexa View Post
    This began with my saying that my prime importance with a 13 year old child of mine would be that s/he knew how to keep themselves safe on the internet and in later posts clarified that it was impossible to know who anyone you are talking to is.

    I also pointed out that I have never had to deal with this situation as my daughter was over the age of 13 before any unsavory activity started on the internet. In fact she was 14 before I got a computer in 1995

    I further pointed out that when my child was 13 she and her friends were aware of most of the scams which were going on anyway including some of the ones I was unaware of.

    From the beginning you got on your hobby horse about how in the US (not where I live and I have not heard of the people you mentioned who apparently go on and on about this) there is an over emphasis on the danger to children and you appeared to be critical of any suggestions to children to be aware they did not know who they were talking to - which was what I was suggesting.

    My own belief on the need to be aware is simply because of a few real cases we have had here. If I had a 13 year old I would not want them making arrangements in quiet to go off and meet someone they had met on the internet. That is my opinion and no amount of you huffing and puffing is going to change that.

    As it happens and something which I also mentioned in my first post, my daughter knew anyway by 13 how to take care of herself so the likelihood of that happening anyway was highly unlikely. That does not change the fact that some children do and does not change the fact that I would want my child to be aware that she does not know who she is speaking to on the net and should be aware it could be anyone.
    All right. To be clear, would you then advocate greater restrictions on the computer usage of youth than on the computer usage of other persons? If you would, would you also think it consistent to impose greater restrictions on the computer usage or net-related activities of women in regard to their susceptibility to violent crime committed by men? Would you repeat these same cautions to an older person, or do you approach with a perspective that adopts the assumption that youth are uniquely threatened or endangered by these alleged Internet predators?

    Quote Originally Posted by alexa View Post
    That you then suggest I tell my daughter she is in as much danger from her extended family is absurd.

    If I am wanting my child to know that when she is on the internet she has to take care I have no need to tell her that people who I know are of know danger to her may harm her.

    If however I was educating my daughter on the statistics of various dangers and I had studied the one you mentioned and the statistics you gave were correct in this country then it would be appropriate to tell her that.

    That however was not the case.
    I of course don't live in the UK, but are you then claiming that youth ages 12 to 17 face a greater danger of physical violence from Internet predators than they do from family members in that country? Do you have statistical evidence to support that assertion?

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainCourtesy View Post
    And when discussing topics like an "indicator of internet predation", my anti-libertarian sentiments incline me to realize that behavioral predictors can be very accurate and useful and ignoring them for fear of labeling removes a valuable tool from ones arsenal.
    This isn't merely a matter of "behavioral predictions." It's a matter of being rightfully disdainful of stories like this one, which is a symptom of a culture uninterested in the statistical reality that children may as well be struck by lightning as be kidnapped by a stranger and more interested in perpetuating crude myths about "stranger danger." As with the term "terrorist," we shouldn't be surprised to see the term "pedophile" become a crude device utilized for ideological warfare. For example, it's a reality that NAMBLA's historic identification with the early gay rights movement inclines some modern social conservatives to link the two; more than that, you'll find that Conservapedia's page on NAMBLA is descriptive of the organization as one of left-wing ideology. While that may actually be true to some extent, this description betrays an intent to connect certain leftist causes with pro-pedophile causes.

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainCourtesy View Post
    But, I do agree with the second part of your statement: not all pedophiles are sexual offenders and not all sexual offenders are pedophiles, though the second group is more disputable than the first.
    I've found that even those able to accept the fact (so contrary to proper misconception) that not all pedophiles are sexual offenders are unwilling to concede the reality that not all sexual offenders are pedophiles, and that plenty of situational offenders exist. They insist that any person who's sought any form of sexual interaction with children must therefore suffer from the mental illness of pedophilia, without considering the reality of there being specific diagnostic criteria established for that disorder. It's problematic, and I am of the opinion that discussion of its exact nature is a necessary element in preventing it from being utilized in ideological warfare as mentioned above.

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainCourtesy View Post
    Context and terminology is important. One does not discuss sex, for example, with a 4 year old in the same way as with a 12 year old. Restriction of information is not the issue. The ability to process the information is.
    Actually, restriction of information is the issue. What's not commonly realized is that restriction of information is not merely so trivial as keeping children "protected" from elements that they are not "prepared" for; it plays a role in creating a chasmic division between adults and youth, the existence of which is then used as a means of justifying further arbitrary discrimination and segregation. But the frank reality is that in many ways, innocence is simply ignorance in a frilly pink dress. It's acceptable because it's manifested in a way appreciated by adult society because it caters to the whims of those who have an interest in upholding adult society. That's the basis behind the arbitrary division of different variants of ignorance; some forms of ignorance are critical to the sustainment of the current division between adults and youth.

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainCourtesy View Post
    I am a relativist on most issues. However, there is a good point to explaining things the way that you are describing in an ancillary way; though a child may live with non-violent parents, they may not always be subjected to non-violent adults, Better to have that understanding than believe that how things are at home is how things are everywhere.
    My concern here has merely been on the deliberate ignorance of statistical evidence in favor of preconceived stereotypes and popular misconceptions. It's for that reason that my main focus is not strongly disputing the comments that you've made about the applicability and accuracy of the available statistical evidence; the fact that you show respect for the empirical process itself is already commendable.

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    Re: Would you allow your 13 year old child on this forum?

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainCourtesy View Post
    In my opinion, this would be impossible to assess. What would your proposal around determining this, be?
    There are several possible approaches. The psychologist Robert Epstein (The Case Against Adolescence: Rediscovering the Adult in Every Teen, New York: Quill Driver Books, 2007) advocates government administration of competency tests to adolescent youth, with the premise being that successful passage of such tests indicates sufficient competency for what's presently defined as "adult" life. He writes:

    Young people should be extended full adult rights and responsibilities in each of a number of different areas as soon as they can demonstrate appropriate competence in each area. Passing appropriate tests will allow competent young people to become emancipated, sign contracts, start businesses, work, marry, and so on, but I am not suggesting that young people be given more "freedom." We need to start judging young people by their abilities, not their age, just as we're now increasingly doing with the elderly.
    Though my opposition to competency tests has waned to some degree in recent years, it still remains to some extent. Aside from the more standard technical objections (whether criteria determination would be fair and objective, whether these tests could actually reflect technical ability, whether there would be certain areas where there would exist a propensity towards inaccurate results, etc.), I genuinely don't believe that competency tests are necessary in most cases. I'm of the belief that the best means of illustrating sufficient ability to exercise the rights and responsibilities of self-determination is to attempt it. Failure could mean a longer period of parental dependence and preparation for re-engagement in such exercises, and success could mean the gradual expansion of self-determination to all other facets of life. I can of course imagine a number of objections that you may have to such advocacy, and this and another thread has prompted me to start a thread specifically devoted to this topic. I'll probably do that sometime over the weekend when another person who I know would have a strong interest in the discussion will return.

    Quote Originally Posted by Goshin View Post
    "Maturity" is a question-begging term. We use "he's mature for his age" to describe a child or teen that has more sense, intellect and self-restraint than is commonplace.

    Maturity, however, is more than just those things. Experience is one of the greatest differences between an exceptionally intelligent 15yo and an average-intelligence 25yo. It is the difference between knowing something intellectually, because you read it in a book, and knowing something in your gut because it actually happened to you (or in your presence) IRL.
    I don't believe we can use such experience differentials to warrant or justify vastly different forms of legal treatment for those respective age groups any more than they could be used as such justification for inequitable treatment between those in their mid-20's and those in their mid-30's. We need to recognize the reality that individuals vary tremendously in their respective experiences and behaviors learned from those experiences, and that age alone is thus not a sufficient criterion for discrimination. Matters are complicated further when we consider Joshua Meyrowitz's (The Adultlike Child and the Childlike Adult: Socialization in an Electronic Age, Daedalus, Vol. 113, No. 3, Anticipations (Summer, 1984), pp. 19-48) observation that "those who insist upon the "naturalness" of our traditional conceptions of childhood are basing their belief on a very narrow cultural and historical perspective. Childhood and adulthood have been conceived of differently in different cultures, and child and adult roles have varied even within the same culture from one historical period to another.”

    Quote Originally Posted by Goshin View Post
    IIRC there is also the issue of brain structure maturity, that those parts of the brain relating to impulse control and so forth do not fully develop until around 20-25.
    I wouldn't be so certain to use that as justification for preconceived stereotypes if I were you, much less justification for discrimination in terms of legal policy. I wouldn't personally deny that MRI and fMRI scans (presumably what you're referring to) provide us with intriguing observations of physical brain development, but we must be cautious about extrapolating data from these scans in an attempt to form broad policy approaches, as Jay Giedd, Laurence Steinberg, and Deborah Yurgelun-Todd have been far too quick to do, in my opinion. The chief opponent of this approach thus far has been the aforementioned psychologist Robert Epstein (former editor of Psychology Today), who writes this in The Myth of the Teen Brain, published in Scientific American Mind:

    This work seems to support the idea of the teen brain we see in the headlines until we realize two things. First, most of the brain changes that are observed during the teen years lie on a continuum of changes that take place over much of our lives. For example, a 1993 study by Jésus Pujol and his colleagues at the Autonomous University of Barcelona looked at changes in the corpus callosum—a massive structure that connects the two sides of the brain—over a two-year period with individuals between 11 and 61 years old. They found that although the rate of growth declined as people aged, this structure still grew by about 4 percent each year in people in their 40s (compared with a growth rate of 29 percent in their youngest subjects). Other studies, conducted by researchers such as Elizabeth Sowell of the University of California, Los Angeles, show that gray matter in the brain continues to disappear from childhood well into adulthood. Second, I have not been able to find even a single study that establishes a causal relation between the properties of the brain being examined and the problems we see in teens. By their very nature, imaging studies are correlational, showing simply that activity in the brain is associated with certain behavior or emotion. As we learn in elementary statistics courses, correlation does not even imply causation. In that sense, no imaging study could possibly identify the brain as a causal agent, no matter what areas of the brain were being observed.
    Similar analysis is typically regarded to come from sociologist Mike Males, The "Teen Brain" Craze: New Science, or Ancient Politics?, though his approach primarily centers around evaluating the apparent lack of a connection between physical brain development and the actual behaviors of adolescents and similar age youth, since it would seem that a faulty or underdeveloped brain would make one inclined to greater risk-taking and similar behaviors. He writes this:

    1. Adolescents, immature brains and all, are doing far better today than the supposedly cerebrally-developed midlifers complaining about them.

    2. Scientists always seem to find biological flaws in the brains of populations that politicians and the public find fearsome or blameworthy for social problems.

    3. The preponderance of laboratory research does not find significant differences between adult and teenage cognitive ability.

    4. Scientists have not compared teenage and adult risk taking on a level playing field.

    ...

    Conclusion: The supposedly immature brain development that renders teenagers naturally risk-prone mysteriously fails to affect teenagers from more affluent backgrounds, or from Europe or Japan (where youth poverty rates and dangers are low), who routinely display risks lower than adults do. Rather, “science’s discovery” of the problematic “teenage brain” is just the latest in a long, disgraceful history of alliances between officials, interest groups, sensational media, and a small number of scientists who serve their needs. The ability of authorities to scapegoat unpopular, powerless groups in society instead of facing difficult social problems—in this case, rising middle-aged drug and crime epidemics and the effects of poverty on youth risk—endangers Americans by preventing realistic solutions to serious crises.
    Of far greater interest to me personally is the literature on the actual mental abilities and competence of adolescents and other youth to make rational and informed decisions, not snapshots of physical brain development that may necessarily diverge from analyses of actual mental functioning: effectively another necessary distinction between "the brain" and "the mind." I've referred to some of it here in the latest thread about parental notification/consent for abortion. And as I said, I'll probably be starting a thread devoted specifically to that topic, and I'll expect that you'd be interested in contributing.
    Last edited by Agnapostate; 06-26-09 at 05:40 AM.

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    Re: Would you allow your 13 year old child on this forum?

    Quote Originally Posted by Goshin View Post
    I don't entirely disagree with you. I've known 40 year olds who were as irresponsible as any teenager; I've known 15yo's who were better company and more intresting in conversation than many people twice their age.

    However, these are the exceptions, not the norm.
    I've spent a lot of time around my daughter and her friends. I would argue that there is a certain percentage of teenagers, especially amongst the gifted population, where this is the norm. These kids are eerily intelligent and mature.

    They sometimes have difficulty relating to their peers because they are so much more mature, in fact. My daughter is one of them. But, she's far from the only one.

    This idea that teenagers are less capable of dealing with adult matters does not match my experiences with teens. In fact, more often than we would like to contemplate, teens deal with adult subjects that many of us refuse to contemplate: substance addicted parents, raising siblings, working to support the family. When you look specifically at inner city areas where crime is rampant, teen involvement in adult matters is even greater.

    With someone lacking a certain experience (such as having been married, being a parent) there are many things they are very unlikely to really understand on a deep level, for lack of that experience.
    It largely depends on the teenager. My daughter unfortunately watched the dissolution of my marriage, and has subsequently had to cut off most contact with her father because he emotionally abused her (frequent references to her being fat, ugly, stupid, and iodiotic...she is none of those things). Let me tell you...her life experiences have made her far more mature than her father.

    She not only understands the concept of marriage, but she also understands what it means to be a parent because I am very transparent in my parenting. She also understands the concept of having to cut someone out of your life because they are destructive to you. That's serious stuff.


    I've put it mathmatically before like this:

    E x I = W

    Where E is experience, I is Intelligence, and W is Wisdom.
    The concept of wisdom versus intelligence is a false one.

    You're trying to characterize something that is a subjective idea in concrete terms. Some people are very intelligent, have had lots of experience, and still haven't learned from them. They lack common sense, something my daughter has in spades, and something that is also subjective and impossible to quantify. There are multiple types of intelligence.
    Last edited by Catz Part Deux; 06-26-09 at 06:17 AM.

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    Re: Would you allow your 13 year old child on this forum?

    Quote Originally Posted by Agnapostate View Post
    All right. To be clear, would you then advocate greater restrictions on the computer usage of youth than on the computer usage of other persons?
    I have already dealt with this. With under 13's it would depend on their age and ability. For 13 year olds I was quite clear that provided they knew how to keep themselves safe, I would not be troubled with them coming to this site. I cannot answer in respect of a mythical person because everyone is different but as far as my own daughter was concerned by 13 I would not have needed any restrictions.

    Quote Originally Posted by Agnapostate View Post
    If you would, would you also think it consistent to impose greater restrictions on the computer usage or net-related activities of women in regard to their susceptibility to violent crime committed by men? Would you repeat these same cautions to an older person, or do you approach with a perspective that adopts the assumption that youth are uniquely threatened or endangered by these alleged Internet predators?
    N/A However you are missing out on an important point here. Parents have a responsibility to their children. Adults are responsible for themselves. If I found out that I had a child, god forbid, who was making slappy happy films and putting them on the net, you bet I would get interested in this and every area of their life that I had been hiding my eyes from


    Quote Originally Posted by Agnapostate View Post

    I of course don't live in the UK, but are you then claiming that youth ages 12 to 17 face a greater danger of physical violence from Internet predators than they do from family members in that country? Do you have statistical evidence to support that assertion?
    From my own particular family members yes, and you made that personal to my own family.

    I can tell you categorically that no one among the members of my family has been involved in physical violence against 12-17 year olds.

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    Re: Would you allow your 13 year old child on this forum?

    Quote Originally Posted by alexa View Post
    I have already dealt with this. With under 13's it would depend on their age and ability. For 13 year olds I was quite clear that provided they knew how to keep themselves safe, I would not be troubled with them coming to this site. I cannot answer in respect of a mythical person because everyone is different but as far as my own daughter was concerned by 13 I would not have needed any restrictions.
    That's the point I've been attempting to make. Your post seemed to imply that you would favor such restrictions to avoid dangers from "pedophiles" on the Internet. If I was mistaken, you'll of course understand that I presumed that you viewed the presence of dangerous Internet predators as a justification for restricting Internet usage. I necessarily disagree with that stance on the grounds of the extreme statistical rarity of Internet predation against youth.

    Quote Originally Posted by alexa View Post
    N/A However you are missing out on an important point here. Parents have a responsibility to their children. Adults are responsible for themselves. If I found out that I had a child, god forbid, who was making slappy happy films and putting them on the net, you bet I would get interested in this and every area of their life that I had been hiding my eyes from
    But that presumes that youth dependence on parents is a natural condition, and though this is dubious in the later stages of biological adulthood, it's simply decidedly untrue during adolescence. To that end, I would also not have favored the practice of a working husband placing similar restrictions on a housewife if he'd adopted the antiquated notion of their inferiority and "childishness," since that is also not a natural condition of dependence.

    Quote Originally Posted by alexa View Post
    From my own particular family members yes, and you made that personal to my own family.

    I can tell you categorically that no one among the members of my family has been involved in physical violence against 12-17 year olds.
    Not at all. My point was merely that family members in general were more likely to be involved in violent physical abuse of youth than Internet predators of some variety.

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    Re: Would you allow your 13 year old child on this forum?

    Quote Originally Posted by Agnapostate View Post
    That's the point I've been attempting to make. Your post seemed to imply that you would favor such restrictions to avoid dangers from "pedophiles" on the Internet. If I was mistaken, you'll of course understand that I presumed that you viewed the presence of dangerous Internet predators as a justification for restricting Internet usage. I necessarily disagree with that stance on the grounds of the extreme statistical rarity of Internet predation against youth.
    Then you misunderstood me. Here is part of that post.

    Quote Originally Posted by alexa View Post

    So I would make sure she was crystal clear aware of dangers and then leave it up to her to make mistakes and then come to me to discuss them
    .

    What I'm saying is safety re such people as pedophiles is paramount but that can be secured by letting your child be very aware of what is going on. The rest is a life learning experience.
    My position was that provided she knew how to keep herself safe, I would have had no problems with her having freedom of the net. As long as she knew how to keep herself safe, the rest is just a learning experience - this is also because I know she would have discussed anything she found troubling with me.

    Quote Originally Posted by Agnapostate View Post

    But that presumes that youth dependence on parents is a natural condition, and though this is dubious in the later stages of biological adulthood, it's simply decidedly untrue during adolescence. To that end, I would also not have favored the practice of a working husband placing similar restrictions on a housewife if he'd adopted the antiquated notion of their inferiority and "childishness," since that is also not a natural condition of dependence.
    Well as I said, that would not have been a problem for me but parents do have a responsibility to bring up their children as they see fit. I doubt you could do much hiding on the net for 13 year olds anyway.

    To give an example of parental responsibility. My daughter had got herself an HND in dance and was offered a place for one year to convert that into a degree - the first time the college had ever allowed anyone to do this in just one year. Her boyfriend however did not want her to do this because he was terrified she would meet someone new and leave him. I was adamant in my belief that what she should do was the degree. It is probably the only time I have held firm to my belief rather than just leaving it as an open decision for her - though of course it was her decision.

    She is now very happy she did this as she has work she would not otherwise have got. That is parental responsibility. Speaking out on what you believe is best for your children. Some parents may think differently to myself and I may even believe they are wrong but they are doing what they believe is best for their children. Once a youth becomes independent they are responsible for themselves.

    Quote Originally Posted by Agnapostate View Post

    Not at all. My point was merely that family members in general were more likely to be involved in violent physical abuse of youth than Internet predators of some variety.
    You made it personal to my own family

    Quote Originally Posted by Agnapostate View Post

    Then have you provided similar information of the statistically greater dangers that your immediate and extended family pose than people on the Internet?
    Last edited by alexa; 06-26-09 at 07:22 AM.

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    Re: Would you allow your 13 year old child on this forum?

    Quote Originally Posted by joko104 View Post
    Would you allow your 13 year old child to read and post on this forum?
    I joined when I was 13. This was my first mainly-adult forum site.

    I think I've been scarred for life...

    But on the other hand, I'm far better-informed than I was, and this is one of the better places on the internet to get a sense of the modern conservative viewpoint, as well as a source for interesting news you don't tend to see in the papers or on Yahoo.

    If my future 13-year-old shares my curiosity, political interest and, for lack of a less narcissistic-sounding word, intelligence, I'd have no issue at all with them joining. If they were less sensible and more impressionable, I'd probably keep them away until I was convinced they could visit without getting sucked in by the 9/11 Truthers or blindly following the twisted envoronmental, social and financial arguments of certain posters.
    Quote Originally Posted by Korimyr the Rat
    Heh. Do you realize how many children I'd murder to be immortal and have an army of willing slaves?

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    Re: Would you allow your 13 year old child on this forum?

    Quote Originally Posted by Catz Part Deux View Post
    I've spent a lot of time around my daughter and her friends. I would argue that there is a certain percentage of teenagers, especially amongst the gifted population, where this is the norm. These kids are eerily intelligent and mature.
    The gifted are, by definition, not the norm. They are so called because they are far above average.


    This idea that teenagers are less capable of dealing with adult matters does not match my experiences with teens. In fact, more often than we would like to contemplate, teens deal with adult subjects that many of us refuse to contemplate: substance addicted parents, raising siblings, working to support the family. When you look specifically at inner city areas where crime is rampant, teen involvement in adult matters is even greater.

    It largely depends on the teenager. My daughter unfortunately watched the dissolution of my marriage, and has subsequently had to cut off most contact with her father because he emotionally abused her (frequent references to her being fat, ugly, stupid, and iodiotic...she is none of those things). Let me tell you...her life experiences have made her far more mature than her father.
    You are talking, in this case, about teens who have had experience that is at least somewhat outside the norm... which I consider to prove my point about experience.



    The concept of wisdom versus intelligence is a false one.

    You're trying to characterize something that is a subjective idea in concrete terms. Some people are very intelligent, have had lots of experience, and still haven't learned from them. They lack common sense, something my daughter has in spades, and something that is also subjective and impossible to quantify. There are multiple types of intelligence
    Semantics. I wasn't attempting to postulate a whole and complete theory of intelligence, experience and wisdom or common sense as a doctoral thesis; I was simply explaining and illustrating that experience does make a difference.

    Yes, there are people who are "intelligent" in a narrow, specialized manner ("book smart" as we say in Dixie) who have no common sense (also called wisdom, depending on how you want to define things.) I was referring to intelligence in the broader sense, of people who are capable of realizing cause and effect, analyzing their experiences and extracting the lessons or causal elements, etc.

    Yes, everyone is an individual, and age is only one factor. However if you look at the median line of humanity, rather than the extremes of the gifted and the impaired, I think that wisdom is largely a function of age and experience, partly dependent on the person's intellectual ability to analyze and learn from their experiences.

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