View Poll Results: Is the European Union a good thing?

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  • Yes

    21 58.33%
  • No

    15 41.67%
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Thread: Is the European Union a good thing?

  1. #31
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    Re: Is the European Union a good thing?

    Quote Originally Posted by Inferno View Post
    WHY?........................ Is there a reason?
    It champions individual liberty and decentralizes government power by subordinating it to the will of the people.

  2. #32
    activist professor Inferno's Avatar
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    Re: Is the European Union a good thing?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    No.....wow, fascist much?

    They should have term limits for sure, lifetime appointments are BS. And there should be some way by which the People can directly remove them; say if 80% vote to oust a judge, he's gone. It has to be a high percentage, but it should be there. Make the judges more accountable to the People.
    Democracy is mob rule. Laws are the stable structure that the framework of a nation is built. The laws need to be held as the highest power. Not some silly straw vote by imbeciles that think Lesbians and gays will destroy marriage ad institution that has already failed. Rights are rights and judges need to be in place to define such laws.

    No not fascist a realist and a Utopian socialist that knows that most people haven't the brains to come in from the rain without being instructed. That is how 47M people voted for Bush a second time because people are basically ignorant to what is going on.
    Democracy is the road to socialism. Karl Marx
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  3. #33
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    Re: Is the European Union a good thing?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ethereal View Post
    As soon as the human species roundly rejects socialism, populism, collectivism, multiculturalism, religious fundamentalism, and statism I will welcome a one-world government, until then, I will die before I submit to its authority.
    Do you actually know what all of those forms of rule are?
    Democracy is the road to socialism. Karl Marx
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  4. #34
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    Re: Is the European Union a good thing?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ethereal View Post
    It champions individual liberty and decentralizes government power by subordinating it to the will of the people.
    Then Roman rule would be better?
    Democracy is the road to socialism. Karl Marx
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  5. #35
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    Re: Is the European Union a good thing?

    Quote Originally Posted by Inferno View Post
    WHY?........................ Is there a reason?
    Yes. Three words: "We the People".

    President Reagan said it better than I ever will:

    "Ours was the first revolution in the history of mankind that truly reversed the course of government, and with three little words: 'We the people.' 'We the people' tell the government what to do, it doesn't tell us. 'We the people' are the driver, the government is the car. And we decide where it should go, and by what route, and how fast. Almost all the world's constitutions are documents in which governments tell the people what their privileges are. Our Constitution is a document in which 'We the people' tell the government what it is allowed to do. 'We the people' are free. This belief has been the underlying basis for everything I've tried to do these past eight years."
    Consider the Preamble to the Treaty of Lisbon:
    HIS MAJESTY THE KING OF THE BELGIANS,
    THE PRESIDENT OF THE REPUBLIC OF BULGARIA,
    THE PRESIDENT OF THE CZECH REPUBLIC,
    HER MAJESTY THE QUEEN OF DENMARK,
    THE PRESIDENT OF THE FEDERAL REPUBLIC OF GERMANY,
    THE PRESIDENT OF THE REPUBLIC OF ESTONIA,
    THE PRESIDENT OF IRELAND,
    THE PRESIDENT OF THE HELLENIC REPUBLIC,
    HIS MAJESTY THE KING OF SPAIN,
    THE PRESIDENT OF THE FRENCH REPUBLIC,
    THE PRESIDENT OF THE ITALIAN REPUBLIC,
    THE PRESIDENT OF THE REPUBLIC OF CYPRUS,
    THE PRESIDENT OF THE REPUBLIC OF LATVIA,
    THE PRESIDENT OF THE REPUBLIC OF LITHUANIA,
    HIS ROYAL HIGHNESS THE GRAND DUKE OF LUXEMBOURG,
    THE PRESIDENT OF THE REPUBLIC OF HUNGARY,
    THE PRESIDENT OF MALTA,
    HER MAJESTY THE QUEEN OF THE NETHERLANDS,
    THE FEDERAL PRESIDENT OF THE REPUBLIC OF AUSTRIA,
    THE PRESIDENT OF THE REPUBLIC OF POLAND,
    THE PRESIDENT OF THE PORTUGUESE REPUBLIC,
    THE PRESIDENT OF ROMANIA,
    THE PRESIDENT OF THE REPUBLIC OF SLOVENIA,
    THE PRESIDENT OF THE SLOVAK REPUBLIC,
    THE PRESIDENT OF THE REPUBLIC OF FINLAND,
    THE GOVERNMENT OF THE KINGDOM OF SWEDEN,
    HER MAJESTY THE QUEEN OF THE UNITED KINGDOM OF GREAT BRITAIN AND NORTHERN
    IRELAND,
    DESIRING to complete the process started by the Treaty of Amsterdam and by the Treaty of Nice with a view to enhancing the efficiency and democratic legitimacy of the Union and to improving the coherence of its action,
    HAVE RESOLVED to amend the Treaty on European Union, the Treaty establishing the European Community and the Treaty establishing the European Atomic Energy Community, and to this end have designated as their Plenipotentiaries:
    Thus from its very beginning the Treaty of Lisbon is government(s) reaching down to dictate rights, privileges, and powers from on high.

    Consider the closing paragraph of the Preamble to the Constitution of the People's Republic of China:
    This Constitution, in legal form, affirms the achievements of the struggles of the Chinese people of all nationalities and defines the basic system and basic tasks of the state; it is the fundamental law of the state and has supreme legal authority. The people of all nationalities, all state organs, the armed forces, all political parties and public organizations and all enterprises and institutions in the country must take the Constitution as the basic standard of conduct, and they have the duty to uphold the dignity of the Constitution and ensure its implementation.
    In China, the civic duty flows from the people to government, not from the government to the people.

    We can argue the imperfections of the US Constitution ad infitum, but we can never deny the reality that such argument persists because of three little words: "We the People".

  6. #36
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    Re: Is the European Union a good thing?

    Quote Originally Posted by Inferno View Post
    Do you actually know what all of those forms of rule are?
    Indeed I do, hence my rejection of their implementation.

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    Re: Is the European Union a good thing?

    Nice post celticlord.
    Democracy is the road to socialism. Karl Marx
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    Re: Is the European Union a good thing?

    Quote Originally Posted by Inferno View Post
    Then Roman rule would be better?
    No, of course not. Why would you ask such a silly question?

  9. #39
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    Re: Is the European Union a good thing?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ethereal View Post
    Indeed I do, hence my rejection of their implementation.
    Really okay i will take your word for that. I will stick with socialism because i think it is far and away better. The road to socialism is through a failed America I think and we are at the cusp of Americas greatness. The star has tarnished and we will become what we become and i think that will be better than what we were.
    Democracy is the road to socialism. Karl Marx
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  10. #40
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    Re: Is the European Union a good thing?

    Quote Originally Posted by Inferno View Post
    Democracy is mob rule. Laws are the stable structure that the framework of a nation is built. The laws need to be held as the highest power. Not some silly straw vote by imbeciles that think Lesbians and gays will destroy marriage ad institution that has already failed. Rights are rights and judges need to be in place to define such laws.
    What we have is a Democratic Republic, but even in a Republic there has to be some way for the People to exert pressure onto the government. What you have described here is the definition of oligopoly. You are defining things through the State and that is a sure sign of fascism. The State must recognize our rights and uphold our free exercise there of. But what you are saying is that the Courts need to legislate and define what is right and what is wrong. Strictly speaking, their role is not to legislate but to watch the other two branches and prevent those two branches from doing something they cannot. They do not make policy, they merely say if an Executive Order or a piece of Legislation is proper and within the confines of the Constitution. What you want is oligopoly dominated by a few who are untouchable by the People. That is very very dangerous fascism, it's nothing I can support.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

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