View Poll Results: PUBIC POLL: Do you view women as property?

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  • Yes

    9 16.07%
  • No

    47 83.93%
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Thread: PUBLIC POLL: Do you view women as property?

  1. #31
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    Re: PUBLIC POLL: Do you view women as property?

    No, I do not view women as property.
    That said, I'd love it if they were.
    "The darkest places in hell are reserved for those who maintain their neutrality in times of moral crisis."

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  2. #32
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    Re: PUBLIC POLL: Do you view women as property?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    Again, not in a legal sense, no.

    However, we both together chose to renew our vows under Judeo-Christian 'law', so on a sociological/religious level, that does give me authority over her so long as I'm just.

    Now don't get me wrong here, I've made my share of mistakes and share in the guilt for what's going wrong in my marriage today, but typically the husband/father is the head of the household.

    As a side note, a single woman or a widow has equal authority in the eyes of the church as any man so long as her head is "covered" with the authority of Christ. This is the exact same concept as having credentials to make a claim or in making an argument under another credible authority's study/research.
    Jerry, I appreciate your answer. You've provided a great deal of insight into where your opinion comes from. Your opinion varies greatly from what Celticlord has expressed. I see your position as being more a case of the man being the leader of the family and fulfilling his responsibilities...and that is admirable even outside the Judeo-Christian parameters you cited. I see nothing in your view that would make a woman your property or subservient to you. Rather it seems you view them as a valuable member of your family, which you would cherish and take care of. And I'm down with that.
    Hi. TOGTFO.

  3. #33
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    Re: PUBLIC POLL: Do you view women as property?

    Quote Originally Posted by WI Crippler View Post
    Not necesssarily because of marriage, but the dynamics change over time. I will use my best friend as an example. He dated the same girl for a long time, and they lived with each other for years before they got married. Early on in the relationship, she was sort of timid and did whatever he wanted for the most part. Or at least, let him do whatever he wanted to. Then over time, she asserted herself more and balanced the relationship to where he had to compromise with her, and now it is in full reverse of how it started, as she completely dominates him and he has to basically ask permission to be able to do anything, and she sets the schedule for the household. I don't know if he is as timid as she was, but he seems to be unwilling to confront her anymore. There are plenty of times, where if my wife talked to me the way she talks to him, I would have left.
    And you think that her becoming more assertive is due to their getting married? You don't mention how old they were when they first started. Could this be a case of a young inexperienced girl maturing into a confident woman?
    "Yes, but are you a Protestant atheist or a Catholic atheist?".- Northern Irish joke

  4. #34
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    Re: PUBLIC POLL: Do you view women as property?

    Quote Originally Posted by Catz Part Deux View Post
    IN all fairness, I think that marriage implies a certain degree of ownership by both parties over the RELATIONSHIP. One of the things that broke my marriage irreparably, other than the cheating, was the idea my ex-husband had that he wasn't obligated to get consensus before moving ahead. So, if he wanted to buy a $17,000 car, he could do so without getting my input and consent.

    He wanted to be married while living like a single guy.

    When you marry, there is a certain degree of autonomy that is lost. That doesn't mean that you are each other's possessions, but that your lives and fortunes are linked, and you can't make big decisions without each other.

    That's actually one of the reasons that, while I adore my boyfriend, I'm in no hurry to get married. I'm not eager to relinquish that measure of control over my own life.
    I agree, ownership over the relationship, not the person. And I know you see that the definition of ownership is quite different when applied to a relationship versus another person.
    Hi. TOGTFO.

  5. #35
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    Re: PUBLIC POLL: Do you view women as property?

    Quote Originally Posted by Arcana XV View Post
    And you think that her becoming more assertive is due to their getting married? You don't mention how old they were when they first started. Could this be a case of a young inexperienced girl maturing into a confident woman?
    I said that it was the dynamics over time that change in a relationship, not necessarily the pact of marriage. She was well into dominating him before they were married. So some of it was her maturing and coming into her own, coupled with his inability to take a stand for himself every once in a while. If he's fine with everything, that's his business. I've never told him to ever do anything about his relationship with her. And he's never complained to me about it. But its certainley not a relationship that I would stand to be in, from what I have seen of it myself.
    "Loyalty only matters when there's a hundred reasons not to be-" Gen. Mattis

  6. #36
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    Re: PUBLIC POLL: Do you view women as property?

    Quote Originally Posted by Arcana XV View Post
    Why are the rules different once you tie the knot? I don't think it has anything to do with being married or not. The people in the relationship agree to a set of rules and conditions to follow. Do these change upon marriage?
    I think that it isn't so much an issue of marriage, but of sharing a household. And yes, sharing space changes things. If you have joint funds, that changes things even more.

  7. #37
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    Re: PUBLIC POLL: Do you view women as property?

    Quote Originally Posted by Catz Part Deux View Post
    I think that it isn't so much an issue of marriage, but of sharing a household. And yes, sharing space changes things. If you have joint funds, that changes things even more.
    Heh. Point.

    Not only am I most like never getting married again, I'm not planning on living with anyone again either. Been there, done that, no likey.
    "Yes, but are you a Protestant atheist or a Catholic atheist?".- Northern Irish joke

  8. #38
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    Re: PUBLIC POLL: Do you view women as property?

    Quote Originally Posted by Arcana XV View Post
    Heh. Point.

    Not only am I most like never getting married again, I'm not planning on living with anyone again either. Been there, done that, no likey.
    I may do it at some point, my boyfriend is great. But right now, I enjoy not having to share my bed, OR my closet.

    I have to be honest, my biggest concern about marriage is the financial vulnerability. It scares me just to think about it. In Florida, my property would suddenly become HIS property, too. It's intimidating.
    Last edited by Catz Part Deux; 06-22-09 at 01:27 PM.

  9. #39
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    Re: PUBLIC POLL: Do you view women as property?

    Quote Originally Posted by Catz Part Deux View Post
    Husbands are to love their wives as Christ love the church, and laid his life down for it. A self-sacrificing love.

    That is completely at odds with the idea of ownership or property as we think of it in this day/age.
    Hell, it's completely at odds with the idea of "love" as we think of it in this day and age, as well. Our notion of "love" is entirely self-serving and transitory, as well; frankly it amazes me that anyone bothers with it anymore, with the degree to which we have debased it.

    Relationships, especially relationships of family and marriage, are based on mutual obligations. Property cannot be the recipient of obligation-- and I would argue cannot give it, either-- and thus a man's wife cannot be his property.

    Didn't vote in the poll, because my opinion is split. Some women-- like some men-- are property and can be treated and traded as such, but they're not fit to marry. And the very act of marrying them would mean that they are no longer property.

    As far as infidelity goes... Fidelity, my sense of my moral obligations, is the core of my being. It is the largest portion of the reason I do not put a gun in my mouth and end my suffering right now. It is why I plan for the future, and work for the future, and endure conditions and treatment-- a whole existence, essentially-- that I find barely tolerable.

    That said, I do not consider having sex with other people to constitute infidelity on either my part or my partner's. It is not a condition of my relationship-- or my upcoming marriage-- with Leslie, it is obviously not a condition of my relationship with anyone else, and it's been a few years since it has been a condition of any relationship of mine, and that has been largely by default. Fidelity is keeping a roof over our heads and food on our table, supporting each other through adversity, and never ever allowing anyone or anything else to come between us. Fidelity is about loyalty and support; sex matters only because it helps to uphold that.
    Last edited by Korimyr the Rat; 06-22-09 at 01:55 PM.

  10. #40
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    Re: PUBLIC POLL: Do you view women as property?

    Quote Originally Posted by Catz Part Deux View Post
    I think that it isn't so much an issue of marriage, but of sharing a household. And yes, sharing space changes things. If you have joint funds, that changes things even more.
    Its interesting you bring up the sharing of funds. My wife and I have always done the joint account thing, but there has always been one person bringing in the bread for both of us(except for a span of 2 years where we both worked in a profession). In the beginning, I supported my wife through college and now as I begin college, she will be the main bread winner. And to be perfectly honest, I feel as though I am some sort of failure not being able to provide for my family at age 30. I have no issue with my wife working, but I feel as though I am not living up to my end of the bargain by not providing much right now. It tugs at my brain everyday. I know that over time, I will again provide support for my family, in a monetary sense, but right now it feels like I am freeloading off my wife and I absolutely hate it.
    "Loyalty only matters when there's a hundred reasons not to be-" Gen. Mattis

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