How big of a threat is China becoming?

America continues to stick there noses in the businesses of other countries. We do it under the guise of National Security. I find this ironic because I believe we are actually increasing our Security Threat to grave proportions.

One example is how we have supported Taiwain's dissent from China. I personally believe there are underlying issues of immense proportions with the "True" feelings of the Chinese toward America.

China continues a huge military build up that "seems focused toward the U.S."!

China military build-up seems U.S.-focused: Mullen | Reuters

China has literally been shooting and testing laser beems at American spy satellites when they fly over their territory!

They are producing lasers to shoot at our satellites and at least be able to temporarily make them unfunctional.

Pentagon confirms Beijing's anti-satellite laser ? The Register

China now also has capability to fire a "Satellite-Killer"!

They can successfully knock out our satelites with missiles!

Defense Tech: China Tests Satellite Killer?

Now China has in its arsenal a "Carrier-Killer"!

They produced missiles that uses UAV Drones and Satellites to track and target U.S. Carriers.

The missiles have enough fire-power to ONLY TAKE ONE to sink a U.S. Carrier. Or any other American ship.

The Carrier-Killers fly at Moch 10 with a low radar signature and a flight path maneuverability that makes its path unpredictable.
At over 100 miles per min this Carrier-Killer can reach an American ship in no time.
Ships have no defense against a ballistic missile attack.

New Concerns Over Chinese 'Carrier-Killer'

Tawain is still clearly in China's sites and we have been sticking our necks out for Taiwain.

China Military Buildup Analyzed - CBS News

Do you believe China is an impending threat to the U.S.?

Of course they are a threat. They are the most populous nation in the world and they possess the fastest growing economy in the world. Do they intend to attack? I do not think so, but I think they are solidifying their position in the world as they expect to be the next greatest world power. As such, the U.S. is their biggest threat, so it is best to be prepared.

China has more to gain from good relations with the U.S. however from the economic benefit it provides. The U.S. consumes more Chinese goods than any nation in the world, thus I would say they are the biggest potential threat, but are more defensive in nature than many would suppose.

tlmorg02 said:

Of course they are a threat. They are the most populous nation in the world and they possess the fastest growing economy in the world. Do they intend to attack? I do not think so, but I think they are solidifying their position in the world as they expect to be the next greatest world power. As such, the U.S. is their biggest threat, so it is best to be prepared.

China has more to gain from good relations with the U.S. however from the economic benefit it provides. The U.S. consumes more Chinese goods than any nation in the world, thus I would say they are the biggest potential threat, but are more defensive in nature than many would suppose.

Click to expand...

What about our involvement with Taiwain's dissent? You think they're turning the other cheek?

Militarily?

Relatively low.

Economically, high. Selling $600 billion in US debt at once would likely destroy the US dollar along with our economy. The more China moves away from integration with the US, the higher the danger level.

creativedreams said:

What about our involvement with Taiwain's dissent? You think they're turning the other cheek?

Click to expand...

Not at all, the Taiwan situation effects everything that China does. This is the reason China, in the UN, stands against any international intervention in domestic, soverign affairs in relation to any nation. However, China has learned much over the past few decades and are now working to win the hearts of the Taiwanese people. Open flights between Taiwan and China are the first step in reunification. China is also using much propaganda to strengthen the kinship feelings between the two peoples, who are essentially one anyway. To openly attack Taiwan, as has been tried in the past by Mao for one, would only hurt the economy of China. Thus, as China is angered at any American support of Taiwan, they are indeed looking past it as they negotiate with America on trade agreements and other lucrative endeavours.

Will this last forever? Perhaps not, but as China rises, they will indeed keep the previous American promises to help Taiwan in mind as they develop their military. To not be prepared for a possible confrontation would be imprudent for the Chinese government. The biggest threat China poses now is economically. At their current rate of growth, they will surpass the U.S. by 2015.

obvious Child said:

Militarily?

Relatively low.

Economically, high. Selling $600 billion in US debt at once would likely destroy the US dollar along with our economy. The more China moves away from integration with the US, the higher the danger level.

Click to expand...

You need to take into account the damage to the Chinese economy if we were to stop buying goods made by them. It would destroy their growing middle class, as well as the factory workers. I see the situation as an economic Mutual Assured Destruction.

Moon said:

You need to take into account the damage to the Chinese economy if we were to stop buying goods made by them.

Click to expand...

No need. I fully understand the damage that would happen if we stopped trading with them now. It's partially a reason why the PRC has bought up so much debt in the first place. We are essentially buying their goods with their money and trading debt in the first place.

However, you missed my later point. As China untangles itself from US trade and starts replacing US trade with Brazilian, South Korea, Indian and other countries as major trading partners to replace US demand, then its large holdings of US debt become a financial weapon far more damaging then anything other than nuclear weapons. Hence as foreign demand replaces US demand, the danger of that the $600 billion in debt grows. Right now it's not that big of an issue, but potentially, it's epic.

I talked about this several times last year. The Uber-nationalist should be pooing in their pants over Decoupling.

http://www.debatepolitics.com/breaking-news/41432-china-now-1-holder-u-s-debt-2.html#post1057856661
http://www.debatepolitics.com/break...unt-ailing-dollar-bailout.html#post1057675745
http://www.debatepolitics.com/archives/32792-nationalists-decoupling.html
http://www.debatepolitics.com/polls...ider-biggest-threat-us-11.html#post1057580939

Moon said:

You need to take into account the damage to the Chinese economy if we were to stop buying goods made by them. It would destroy their growing middle class, as well as the factory workers. I see the situation as an economic Mutual Assured Destruction.

Click to expand...

An EMAD eh? I agree. I hear people talk about how bad they could hurt us if they wanted, but it goes both ways... we are better as trading partners than not.

Bodhisattva said:

An EMAD eh? I agree. I hear people talk about how bad they could hurt us if they wanted, but it goes both ways... we are better as trading partners than not.

Click to expand...

For the time being. But decoupling is clearly happening. When US demand is replaced to sufficiently large extent by demand from other countries, we're going to see veiled threats coming out of China about mass sell offs. The question is not if, but when that point comes.

Majour threat, and majour corporate interests are allowing this to take place in the name of cheap labour. We are basically ripping out the heart of Western Industrial strenght,and handing it to China. When the Tigers have finished fighting for the scraps, the Chinese Dragon will swoop down from its lofty cliff and eat us all alive.

obvious Child said:

Militarily?

Relatively low.

Economically, high. Selling $600 billion in US debt at once would likely destroy the US dollar along with our economy. The more China moves away from integration with the US, the higher the danger level.

Click to expand...

A Chinese guy on this forum has stated that just before 9/11 China had threatened to drop U.S. Currency and start a Communist Finance Revolution.

I haven't tried to verify if it was true yet...

obvious Child said:

For the time being. But decoupling is clearly happening. When US demand is replaced to sufficiently large extent by demand from other countries, we're going to see veiled threats coming out of China about mass sell offs. The question is not if, but when that point comes.

Click to expand...

We have other options too. China is not the only market, and we have other ways of pressuring the world market...

I only wish that we had been more firm with China from the onset, rather than allow our greedy business leaders import **** good from China that undercut our own workers...

Your question implies military threat. And the answer is none whatsoever. But that hardly means they are not a threat. Economically they are going to be a superpower. They are already our banker.

obvious Child said:

Militarily?

Relatively low.

Economically, high. Selling $600 billion in US debt at once would likely destroy the US dollar along with our economy. The more China moves away from integration with the US, the higher the danger level.

Click to expand...

On the other hand, our economies are so interconnected (i.e., the U.S. economic downturn has also negatively impacted China's economy), doing so would be economic suicide.

But, the potential for the Chinese to CONTROL our policy decisions by controlling our debt should not be understated.

p.s. I don't believe that China poses nearly the threat of instability to us that Mexico and/or Central America do.

Catz Part Deux said:

p.s. I don't believe that China poses nearly the threat of instability to us that Mexico and/or Central America do.

Click to expand...

For your first point on our interconnected economies, China is expanding into other markets. The point, as I think some have made earlier, is that they will sell off the U.S. debt into another currency in the future, thereby destroying the dollar and the buying power it has.

Why, do you think Mexico and Central America will destabilize the U.S.?

The point, as I think some have made earlier, is that they will sell off the U.S. debt into another currency in the future, thereby destroying the dollar and the buying power it has.

Click to expand...

What the hell does that mean?

tlmorg02 said:

Why, do you think Mexico and Central America will destabilize the U.S.?

Click to expand...

Not necessarily destabilize us, but having an unstable third world country that can't control it's own populace, is not a good thing. We practically have a war on our Southern border between the Mexican government and the Mexican drug lords (who are better funded and better equipped).

stekim said:

What the hell does that mean?

Click to expand...

It means that China can decrease the value of the dollar by piece-meal selling off our debt into other currencies. By taking on another currency, China can set the trade standard and it will cut our throats. Of course at the moment, they need the dollar strong because we are their biggest customers. Later, as other markets rise, that will change.

Catz Part Deux said:

Not necessarily destabilize us, but having an unstable third world country that can't control it's own populace, is not a good thing. We practically have a war on our Southern border between the Mexican government and the Mexican drug lords (who are better funded and better equipped).

Click to expand...

These countries were much better off before NAFTA and CAFTA was introduced and U.S. agro-businesses flooded the markets in Mexico and Central America, thereby wiping-out the possibility of farming as an option for those people anylonger.

tlmorg02 said:

It means that China can decrease the value of the dollar by piece-meal selling off our debt into other currencies.

Click to expand...

How would that work exactly? I'm only asking because it makes no sense.

stekim said:

How would that work exactly? I'm only asking because it makes no sense.

Click to expand...

By selling our debt to nations with low currency value and instable markets...

Bodhisattva said:

By selling our debt to nations with low currency value and instable markets...

Click to expand...

Boy how bad would we be ****ed if they sold it to Zimbabawe. :shock:

WI Crippler said:

Boy how bad would we be ****ed if they sold it to Zimbabawe. :shock:

Click to expand...

True dat!!!!! Seriously though, we would be screwed!!:boom

Bodhisattva said:

By selling our debt to nations with low currency value and instable markets...

Click to expand...

Again, that makes no sense. Selling T-bills to some other country isn't going to affect anything. It's not the country holding our debt that is the issue. It's the debt itself. Jeez.