View Poll Results: Has the President said and done enough?

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  • Yes

    15 65.22%
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Thread: Has the President said and done enough with regards to the Iranian protesters?

  1. #21
    wʜɪтe яussɪaи Tashah's Avatar
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    Re: Has the President said and done enough with regards to the Iranian protesters?

    Quote Originally Posted by celticlord View Post
    No matter the outcome of these protests, theocracy's days in Iran are numbered. The Islamic Republic will fall....if not today than when next elections are due to be held.
    If this is the inescapable reality, then it makes little sense to act rashly and put the proverbial cart before the horse. Patience in this is a much more intelligent and savvy approach than paroxysm.

    אשכנזי היהודי • Белый Россию

  2. #22
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    Re: Has the President said and done enough with regards to the Iranian protesters?

    From Pence's speech on the floor:

    Today I'm introducing a resolution that will do just that. It will express its concern regarding the reported irregularities of the presidential election of 12 June, 2009. It will condemn the violence against demonstrators by pro-government militia in Tehran in the wake of the elections. It will affirm our belief in the universality of individual rights and the importance of democratic and fair elections. And lastly, and most importantly, it will express the support of the American people for all Iranian citizens who struggle for freedom, civil liberties and the protection of the rule of law.

    Believe it or not in my small town of Columbus, IN, I grew up next door to a Hungarian immigrant who fled Hungary in the wake of the Soviet repression of the Hungarian revolution in 1956. I sat often with Julius Perr, now passed away, and heard of the way the Hungarian people, inspired by our calls for freedom, stood up for their own freedom. And as Brett Stephens recounts in today's Wall Street Journal we stood by idly. We didn't want to interfere. And the Soviet tanks rolled.

    We cannot stand idly by, speak of Iran's sovereignty, speak of her own right to choose her own leadership at a time when hundreds of thousands of Iranians are risking their lives to stand up for free elections and democracy.

    Ronald Reagan said, ‘No arsenal, or no weapon in the arsenals of the world, is so formidable as the will and moral courage of free men and women.’ All of us desire a fresh start with Iran and it seems from news reports and the extraordinary images coming from the streets of Iran that millions of Iranians long for a new start in their government. There is a reformist movement afoot in Iran.

    Today I’ll introduce a resolution. I urge all my colleagues in both parties to join me in expressing their support for these brave and courageous men and women.

    GOP gets behind Iran protesters - Ben Smith - POLITICO.com
    McCain: U.S. Must Be On "Right Side Of History" In Iran

    McCain quoted Daniel Webster, who argued that rhetorical support could help those involved in the Greek Revolution of 1823. "I hope it may, it may give them courage and spirit," Webster said according to McCain, "teach them that they are not wholly forgotten by the civilized world."

    "The fact is, America has been and will be the beacon of hope and freedom," McCain said. "We are on their side as they seek freedom," he said of the protestors. He also spoke proudly of how American technologies such as Facebook and Twitter have been influential in allowing protestors to communicate.

    McCain: U.S. Must Be On "Right Side Of History" In Iran - Political Hotsheet - CBS News
    Statement from the President on Iran:

    The Iranian government must understand that the world is watching. We mourn each and every innocent life that is lost. We call on the Iranian government to stop all violent and unjust actions against its own people. The universal rights to assembly and free speech must be respected, and the United States stands with all who seek to exercise those rights.

    As I said in Cairo, suppressing ideas never succeeds in making them go away. The Iranian people will ultimately judge the actions of their own government. If the Iranian government seeks the respect of the international community, it must respect the dignity of its own people and govern through consent, not coercion.

    Martin Luther King once said - “The arc of the moral universe is long, but it bends toward justice.” I believe that. The international community believes that. And right now, we are bearing witness to the Iranian peoples’ belief in that truth, and we will continue to bear witness.

    The Weekly Standard
    I would like to see a stronger call against the theocratic closed circle of power and an explanation of why the elections were illegitimate regardless of the winner, but thems the breaks.
    Last edited by Agent Ferris; 06-21-09 at 01:37 PM.

  3. #23
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    Re: Has the President said and done enough with regards to the Iranian protesters?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tashah View Post
    If this is the inescapable reality, then it makes little sense to act rashly and put the proverbial cart before the horse. Patience in this is a much more intelligent and savvy approach than paroxysm.
    Agreed, but being as Iran is situated between Iraq and Afghanistan, is one side of the Straits of Hormuz, with advanced and advancing nuclear technology, it is in no one's best interests to allow the theocracy to just collapse into complete chaos.

    Direct intervention is not a viable option, that much is certain. Smuggling arms to the protesters is and should remain off the table.

    However, the diplomatic forms of pressure (championing the rights to free speech, free assembly and free and fair elections, pushing for international media to have access to report on the protests) can help shape the protest movement so that when the theocracy does fall, something besides chaos can take its place. By articulating the same values the protesters have--about elections particularly--when the theocracy does fall, the US has an opportunity to be positioned to re-establish relations with Iran for the first time in 30 years.

    Not taking a firm stand on the principles now wastes that opportunity. Allowing events to shape the rhetoric coming from the Oval Office wastes this vanishing opportunity to influence even slightly the direction of the protest movement.

    It is not meddling to champion free elections, it is not making the protesters a tool of the US to champion the rights of free speech and free assembly. The support from the White House for these core democratic ideals--these core American ideals--has been muddled and anemic at best; it needs to be robust, clear, and forthright.

    Small pressures applied today can yield significant benefits tomorrow.

  4. #24
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    Re: Has the President said and done enough with regards to the Iranian protesters?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tashah View Post
    The Iranians do appreciate the world's moral support, but they would heavily condemn and resist any direct outside meddling in their internal affairs.
    There are numerous Iranian organizations which (if not arms) would welcome U.S. vocal support (Marze Por Gohar) and of course there are Iranian organizations who would welcome logistical, financial, and armament support (Mujahadeen-e-Khalq). And quite frankly I could get behind the MEK sooner than I would ever get behind Mousavi who as PM was partially responsible for the democide of 30 thousand political dissidents buried in the mass grave of Khavaran. Iran has the most pro-U.S. populace in the Middle East outside of Israel. The "death to America" rallies are staged by the state.

  5. #25
    wʜɪтe яussɪaи Tashah's Avatar
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    Re: Has the President said and done enough with regards to the Iranian protesters?

    Quote Originally Posted by celticlord View Post
    Not taking a firm stand on the principles now wastes that opportunity. Allowing events to shape the rhetoric coming from the Oval Office wastes this vanishing opportunity to influence even slightly the direction of the protest movement.

    It is not meddling to champion free elections, it is not making the protesters a tool of the US to champion the rights of free speech and free assembly. The support from the White House for these core democratic ideals--these core American ideals--has been muddled and anemic at best; it needs to be robust, clear, and forthright.
    Muddled and anemic?

    Obama to Iran’s leaders: Stop ‘unjust’ actions
    Sat., June 20, 2009

    WASHINGTON - President Barack Obama on Saturday challenged Iran's government to halt a "violent and unjust" crackdown on dissenters, using his bluntest language yet to condemn Tehran's post-election response.

    "We call on the Iranian government to stop all violent and unjust actions against its own people," Obama said in a written statement. "The universal rights to assembly and free speech must be respected, and the United States stands with all who seek to exercise those rights."

    "Suppressing ideas never succeeds in making them go away," the president said, recalling a theme from the speech he gave in Cairo, Egypt, this month. "The Iranian people will ultimately judge the actions of their own government," Obama said. "If the Iranian government seeks the respect of the international community, it must respect the dignity of its own people and govern through consent, not coercion."

    Obama cited Martin Luther King's statement that "the arc of the moral universe is long, but it bends toward justice." "I believe that," the president said. "The international community believes that. And right now, we are bearing witness to the Iranian people's belief in that truth, and we will continue to bear witness."
    Source: MSNBC.com

    Unless my language skills are suddenly falling by the wayside, Obama's words above are excellent exemplars of robust, clear, and forthright sentiment.

    אשכנזי היהודי • Белый Россию

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    Re: Has the President said and done enough with regards to the Iranian protesters?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tashah View Post
    Muddled and anemic?
    Muddled and anemic, when it comes in the third act.

    If he had said that a week earlier, it would have been a lot stronger.

  7. #27
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    Re: Has the President said and done enough with regards to the Iranian protesters?

    I think Obama needs to look to Regan on this one.

  8. #28
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    Re: Has the President said and done enough with regards to the Iranian protesters?

    Quote Originally Posted by Arcana XV View Post
    Actually my concern is more for the Iranian people. I fear that if the US' role becomes more prominent the people of Iran will be the first ones to suffer the consequences. I fear the crackdown would get much worse.
    Sadly, I think you're right. I worry over their fate throughout all this.

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    Re: Has the President said and done enough with regards to the Iranian protesters?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ethereal View Post
    I think Obama needs to look to Regan on this one.
    Exactly. What is missing from the rhetoric is that short, succinct, declaration of unequivocal principle. And it is not as if there are not an abundance of images to call upon for such a declaration.

    Eyewitness: From Tehran's Streets - Photo Gallery, 24 Pictures - LIFE

    One good message that was missing from Dear Leader's statement: Release the journalists; let the story of your people be told.

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    Re: Has the President said and done enough with regards to the Iranian protesters?

    Quote Originally Posted by Red_Dave View Post
    Support as in.......?
    not recognizing the coup government as the official government of iran.

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