View Poll Results: Has the President said and done enough?

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Thread: Has the President said and done enough with regards to the Iranian protesters?

  1. #11
    wʜɪтe яussɪaи Tashah's Avatar
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    Re: Has the President said and done enough with regards to the Iranian protesters?

    The Iranians do appreciate the world's moral support, but they would heavily condemn and resist any direct outside meddling in their internal affairs.

    Obama is playing this close to the vest and I think, correctly. Say what you need to say, but initiate no clumsy half-assed initiatives that can be politically exploited by the hardliners. Down the road, the US will have to interact with an Iranian government. Exactly what government that may be is an unknown quantity atm. This is yet another political handicap that must be considered in framing a cogent yet elastic response to events.

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    Re: Has the President said and done enough with regards to the Iranian protesters?

    a little more international support would definitely help.
    Last edited by youknowwho; 06-21-09 at 11:45 AM.

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    Re: Has the President said and done enough with regards to the Iranian protesters?

    I think he's said enough. The last thing the US needs is a similar diplomatic nightmare as the UK and Iran and embroiled in right now. And you know that if the US president's statements become any more forceful that's exactly what's going to happen. It will serve the interests of no one. Not the US and most certainly not the people of Iran.

    Iran and Britain in diplomatic stand-off as protest death toll rises - Times Online

    Britain and Iran moved towards a full-blown diplomatic crisis today as David Miliband rejected claims that the Government was stirring protests against the disputed re-election of president Mahmoud Ahmadinejad.

    Within hours of confirmation that the BBC correspondent Jon Leyn had been ordered to leave Tehran, Iran’s foreign minister rebuked Britain for raising questions about voting irregularities.

    As the death toll from clashes between demonstrators and security forces continued to rise, Manouchehr Mottaki told diplomats: “Great Britain has plotted against the presidential election for more than two years. We witnessed an influx of people before the election. Elements linked to the British secret service were flying in in droves.”

    His comments come after Iran’s supreme leader Ayatollah Ali Khamenei accused “the evil British government” on Friday of interfering last weekend's election.

    But Mr Miliband suggested that Mr Mottaki was seeking to distract attention from the country’s internal difficulties.
    "Yes, but are you a Protestant atheist or a Catholic atheist?".- Northern Irish joke

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    Re: Has the President said and done enough with regards to the Iranian protesters?

    Quote Originally Posted by youknowwho View Post
    a little more international support would definitely help.
    Is there not a very real possibility that the US getting more involved in this could backfire in a major way?
    "Yes, but are you a Protestant atheist or a Catholic atheist?".- Northern Irish joke

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    Re: Has the President said and done enough with regards to the Iranian protesters?

    Quote Originally Posted by Arcana XV View Post
    Is there not a very real possibility that the US getting more involved in this could backfire in a major way?
    Iran cannot threaten international community now, since in any war people would not support the government and government cannot afford to go to war. Iran is now full scale oppressing inside voices, and I can't imagine how this can be worst. the fact is if regime could survive this situation, we will face a dirty totalitarian regime which is going after atomic bomb as fast as they can (and IMO that's why ahmadinejad needed to remain in power by coup) and Iran would be hell for her people and a big threat to the world. it is very important that people win this time, otherwise, I believe it's gonna be a nightmare upon us.

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    Re: Has the President said and done enough with regards to the Iranian protesters?

    Quote Originally Posted by youknowwho View Post
    a little more international support would definitely help.
    As Arcana XV correctly pointed out, there is a fine line between productive support and counterproductive support. The regime is looking for any flimsy excuse to paint the protests as a subversive plot initiated by the wicked West to humiliate Iran and her people.

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    Re: Has the President said and done enough with regards to the Iranian protesters?

    Quote Originally Posted by youknowwho View Post
    Iran cannot threaten international community now, since in any war people would not support the government and government cannot afford to go to war. Iran is now full scale oppressing inside voices, and I can't imagine how this can be worst. the fact is if regime could survive this situation, we will face a dirty totalitarian regime which is going after atomic bomb as fast as they can (and IMO that's why ahmadinejad needed to remain in power by coup) and Iran would be hell for her people and a big threat to the world. it is very important that people win this time, otherwise, I believe it's gonna be a nightmare upon us.
    Actually my concern is more for the Iranian people. I fear that if the US' role becomes more prominent the people of Iran will be the first ones to suffer the consequences. I fear the crackdown would get much worse.
    "Yes, but are you a Protestant atheist or a Catholic atheist?".- Northern Irish joke

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    Re: Has the President said and done enough with regards to the Iranian protesters?

    Another tangential item needs to be considered in the mix.

    As the Iraq Gulf War was approaching its epilogue, Bush the Elder encouraged the people of Iraq to rise up and topple Saddam. They took his words to heart. The Ba'ath regime then methodically slaughtered untold thousands of Iraqi civilians as US forces looked on, forbidden to intervene.

    The people of the Middle East have not forgotten this episode.

    The upshot is that Obama cannot raise his rhetoric to Bushian levels without risking potentially catastrophic political and material blowback in this region.

    אשכנזי היהודי • Белый Россию

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    Re: Has the President said and done enough with regards to the Iranian protesters?

    Arrests of Rafsanjani kin show Iran clerics split - Yahoo! News

    Iran's government said Sunday it arrested the daughter and four other relatives of former President Hashemi Rafsanjani, one of the country's most powerful men, in a move that exposed a rift among the ruling Islamic clerics over the disputed presidential election.
    This is why I believe the US should be speaking out more forcefully.

    What these protests signify is not a straightforward rejection of Ahamenijad, Khamenei, or even the Islamic Republic. Mousavi and the elections are the current flashpoint, but I don't see the cohesion of the protest movement being anything close to what toppled the Shah 30 years ago.

    While the protest movement has the potential to topple Khamenei, whether Mousavi would ascend to lead Iran is far from certain. Whether Rasfanjani would rise up instead is equally uncertain. Chaos is the most likely outcome of a Khamenei ouster. One aspect of the 1979 revolution that the Ayatollah Khomeini got absolutely correct is he swiftly brought order and structure to the new government. Neither Rasfanjani nor Mousavi strike me as well positioned to ensure a swift transition to a new government.

    Even if Rasfanjani succeeds in ousting Khamenei, being as he is chairman of the Assembly of Experts, he does so at the expense of the core credentials of the Islamic Republic. The Islamic Republic is built upon Khomeini's re-interpretation of velayat-e faqih ("guardianship of the jurist"), which calls for ultimate authority to reside in a faqih (jurist/cleric) with a surpassing knowledge of Islamic law; presumablly such an individual would already be acknowledged as a Grand Ayatollah before being tapped to be the Supreme Leader.

    Only problem with this is that Khamenei is not such a cleric, and was only elevated to the status of Ayatollah after succeeding Khomeini as the Supreme Leader. If Khamenei is outsed by the Assembly of Experts, the cynical manipulations of religious status that allowed him to succeed Khomeini back in 1989 are fully exposed; the Assembly of Experts cannot stand on the premise of Islamic law now to oust Khamenei without acknowledging the violations of Islamic law used to install Khamenei.

    Rasfanjani's relatives are being arrested; it is highly unlikely that Khamenei and Rasfanjani are going to find common ground at this point. Too many lines have been drawn. One or the other must lose, but regardless of who loses, the Islamic Republic shows itself to have abandoned the principles the Republic is built.

    No matter the outcome of these protests, theocracy's days in Iran are numbered. The Islamic Republic will fall....if not today than when next elections are due to be held. When it falls, it is definitely in the best interests of the United States that someone have an idea of what manner of government can take its place--and that is the issue to which the United States should be speaking.

    Dear Leader needs to turn up the heat a notch.

  10. #20
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    Re: Has the President said and done enough with regards to the Iranian protesters?

    Quote Originally Posted by youknowwho View Post
    a little more international support would definitely help.
    Support as in.......?

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