Should the Judges have the choice to sentence Non Violant Offeders to the Military

Re: Should the Judges have the choice to sentence Non Violant Offeders to the Militar

No.

The military isn't the town dump. If someone has committed crime that deserves jail time, send him there. If it doesn't deserve jail time, don't send him to jail.

The men in today's military are disciplined professionals, not the cast off dregs of society's rejected classes. Don't insult those men who volunteered to serve the nation by larding their ranks with losers that can't obey civillian laws.

Re: Should the Judges have the choice to sentence Non Violant Offeders to the Militar

celticlord said:

Hmmm......(contemplating the deterrent effect of sentencing criminals to marching band).....

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You tell a person he can either go to jail for four years or blow the french horn for two, and he might get confused.

Re: Should the Judges have the choice to sentence Non Violant Offeders to the Militar

GySgt said:

It was unusual for a judge to offer military enlistment as an alternative to jail. There were situations where this was offerred during the Korean and Vietnam War, but not nearly as often as people are under the impression of. However, it was always up to the military if such judicial offerings mattered....

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Thanks for the info. and link. Very informative

Re: Should the Judges have the choice to sentence Non Violant Offeders to the Militar

GySgt said:

One of the ingredients necessary to maintain a strong force is to ensure that the members are volunteers. Each member knows what he is signing up for and understands the possibilities (even though some become "suprised" when ordered to fullfill that obligation).

By opening the military up as an alternative to jail time, the military would get flooded with criminals, insubordination problems, and half-hearted souls. In other words, societies messes would become our messes only they will now be armed and trained to kill. The military's role is to protect America and its interests. Not to correct societies garbage.

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Thanks for the additional perspective. I have to agree.

Re: Should the Judges have the choice to sentence Non Violant Offeders to the Militar

Boot camp? Heck yeah. Military? No thanks.

I'd like the guy/gal defending my country to be top notch, shoot straight and come home in one piece. Not coming down off of meth.

Non-violent drug offenses need to be let go into programs of rehabilitation for their illness, addiction, and dependence on drugs.

Non-violent financial offenses such as fraud should relegate that criminal to minimum wage or just enough to survive, and never allowed to work around money again unless its their own.

This way the prison system and non-violent offenders don't have to have their enormous and state-wide bankrupting systems fall apart in the next 10-20 years. Less privately or 3rd party funded prisons.

Also we can greatly reduce our ridiculously high percentage of prison inmates. As it is 1 in 100 people are in jail.

Re: Should the Judges have the choice to sentence Non Violant Offeders to the Militar

There is one way I can see the military option having good results--create something akin to the French Foreign Legion.

Let people enlist in such a unit with none of the usual background checks, et cetera. They don't even have to use their real names. Whatever name they use when they sign up, they can continue to use when their enlistment is up.

It would give some people a chance for a clean break with a screwed up past without undermining the professionalism of the regular military.

Re: Should the Judges have the choice to sentence Non Violant Offeders to the Militar

celticlord said:

There is one way I can see the military option having good results--create something akin to the French Foreign Legion.

Let people enlist in such a unit with none of the usual background checks, et cetera. They don't even have to use their real names. Whatever name they use when they sign up, they can continue to use when their enlistment is up.

It would give some people a chance for a clean break with a screwed up past without undermining the professionalism of the regular military.

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To do what exactly?
And they'd represent America?

Re: Should the Judges have the choice to sentence Non Violant Offeders to the Militar

This stupid argument comes up on occasion in the UK the British Armed Forces are some of the most dedicated and proffesional in the world they do not want to go back to the days of "press ganging" or the "Black and Tans"

Re: Should the Judges have the choice to sentence Non Violant Offeders to the Militar

celticlord said:

There is one way I can see the military option having good results--create something akin to the French Foreign Legion.

Let people enlist in such a unit with none of the usual background checks, et cetera. They don't even have to use their real names. Whatever name they use when they sign up, they can continue to use when their enlistment is up.

It would give some people a chance for a clean break with a screwed up past without undermining the professionalism of the regular military.

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Violent criminals should be placed in the military where special units called gangs will be created. They get their own patches and colors. Then when war breaks out we let these gangs loose on the enemy. :mrgreen:

We bring gang violence to a whole new level.

Re: Should the Judges have the choice to sentence Non Violant Offeders to the Militar

American said:

Violent criminals should be placed in the military where special units called gangs will be created. They get their own patches and colors. Then when war breaks out we let these gangs loose on the enemy. :mrgreen:

We bring gang violence to a whole new level.

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In an urban environment that might actually be effective.

Re: Should the Judges have the choice to sentence Non Violant Offeders to the Militar

Scorpion89 said:

So this has come up a few time at work.

Should Judge have the choice to give defender who are none-violent and facing prison time choice either the Military or Jail.

Back in the day it used to be a very comman thing for Judges to give first timer's the choice.

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Yes, this is true; however, the practice led to a military that was nearly 40% former criminals. This caused certain issues for military commanders at home and abroad.

The criminal element was often harder to control and often caused their unit-mates to endure punishments they otherwise would not have.

I would imagine this fact was what led to the termination of that option. Also -- local judges do not have the constitutional authority to order a citizen to join an all volunteer military.

So... there are legal complications that make such an option unlikely to return.

Re: Should the Judges have the choice to sentence Non Violant Offeders to the Militar

Redress said:

Just based on my experiences I would tend to suspect that far too many of these type people would not make it through their time in the military. The military does teach discipline, but the groundwork has to already be there for it to work.

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I see your point, maybe someone on borderline, but not all criminals.

Re: Should the Judges have the choice to sentence Non Violant Offeders to the Militar

Absolutely not. No way no how, having an all volunteer army has many perks and subverting that will not make anything better. Plus the choice to join our military needs to be free of any government coercion.

Re: Should the Judges have the choice to sentence Non Violant Offeders to the Militar

It’d be better for them to serve in humanitarian and support roles as enlisted men, but I think it’s a great idea. Maybe we could shoot them if they're insubordinate? lol In all seriousness, the primary reason I say this is because for minor offenders, prison usually serves to deny them future contemporary work opportunities, which would encourage recidivism. Even a crappy position in the military would make it much more likely that they would be reformed and become productive members of society instead of costing us more prison space down the road.

GySgt said:

One of the ingredients necessary to maintain a strong force is to ensure that the members are volunteers. Each member knows what he is signing up for and understands the possibilities (even though some become "suprised" when ordered to fullfill that obligation).

By opening the military up as an alternative to jail time, the military would get flooded with criminals, insubordination problems, and half-hearted souls. In other words, societies messes would become our messes only they will now be armed and trained to kill. The military's role is to protect America and its interests. Not to correct societies garbage.

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For how much we spend on it, it'd be nice if we could get more out of it and use it to save costs elsewhere. I'm not sure why you think the military is strong because it's all-volunteer. We spend as much as the rest of the world combined, and we have technology decades ahead of most threats. Sure our training is top notch too, but gee, I wonder why we're the best, lol.

johnjoel said:

Boot camp? Heck yeah. Military? No thanks.

I'd like the guy/gal defending my country to be top notch, shoot straight and come home in one piece. Not coming down off of meth.

Non-violent drug offenses need to be let go into programs of rehabilitation for their illness, addiction, and dependence on drugs.

Non-violent financial offenses such as fraud should relegate that criminal to minimum wage or just enough to survive, and never allowed to work around money again unless its their own.

This way the prison system and non-violent offenders don't have to have their enormous and state-wide bankrupting systems fall apart in the next 10-20 years. Less privately or 3rd party funded prisons.

Also we can greatly reduce our ridiculously high percentage of prison inmates. As it is 1 in 100 people are in jail.

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Which is also the highest in the world, on the books at least. Yeah, probably should give most non-violent offenders a chance to avoid prison, but for financial crimes it would be more along the lines of compensating victims and doing community service when possible.

As for "non-violent drug crimes" that are also not financial, those shouldn't be crimes at all. If they can be addicted to drugs without victimizing anybody, let them be. We have bigger fish to fry.

Re: Should the Judges have the choice to sentence Non Violant Offeders to the Militar

That would IMO be cruel and unusual punishment.

Re: Should the Judges have the choice to sentence Non Violant Offeders to the Militar

original: Live Uninhibited
I'm not sure why you think the military is strong because it's all-volunteer. We spend as much as the rest of the world combined, and we have technology decades ahead of most threats. Sure our training is top notch too, but gee, I wonder why we're the best, lol.

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All the best technology and training in the world is useless if someone doesn't want to be there in the first place. It takes a certain mindset to succeed in the military.

After reading what those who are or have been in the military have said on this topic, I have to agree with them and have formed the opinion that no, judges shouldn't have the option of sentencing non-violent offenders to military service.

Re: Should the Judges have the choice to sentence Non Violant Offeders to the Militar

hiswoman said:

All the best technology and training in the world is useless if someone doesn't want to be there in the first place. It takes a certain mindset to succeed in the military.

After reading what those who are or have been in the military have said on this topic, I have to agree with them and have formed the opinion that no, judges shouldn't have the option of sentencing non-violent offenders to military service.

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Well I don't know. There are probably better diversion programs for them to go into. It's much more useful to tell non-violent offenders to do some things for their victims and society than to have them suck up tax dollars in a cell, though you can use that as the alternative if they fail to do the diversion program.

Re: Should the Judges have the choice to sentence Non Violant Offeders to the Militar

LiveUninhibited said:

Well I don't know. There are probably better diversion programs for them to go into. It's much more useful to tell non-violent offenders to do some things for their victims and society than to have them suck up tax dollars in a cell,

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No argument from me on this. Restitution to one's victim(s) is always a good idea.

though you can use that as the alternative if they fail to do the diversion program.

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Have to disagree here. Unfortunately there will always be those who refuse to be reformed. Forcing them to serve in the military only serves to unnecessarily risk the lives of those dedicated men and women of the armed forces who serve and protect our country.

Re: Should the Judges have the choice to sentence Non Violant Offeders to the Militar

hiswoman said:

No argument from me on this. Restitution to one's victim(s) is always a good idea.



Have to disagree here. Unfortunately there will always be those who refuse to be reformed. Forcing them to serve in the military only serves to unnecessarily risk the lives of those dedicated men and women of the armed forces who serve and protect our country.

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No no. I meant they go to prison if they fail to comply with restitution. Specifically "that" referred to the "sucking up resources in a cell" from the previous clause.