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world welfare

world welfare

  • yes still give foreign aid

    Votes: 10 52.6%
  • no stop foreign aid

    Votes: 7 36.8%
  • I don't care

    Votes: 2 10.5%

  • Total voters
    19

rudedog

Member
Joined
Jun 13, 2008
Messages
184
Reaction score
75
Location
northern ca.
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Libertarian
Should we as a country still be giving foreign governments aid,basically money we borrowed from china.This goes beyond all reason.

As long as our government keeps up this stupidity we stay in debt for a long time.

So how do you feel.
 
Should we as a country still be giving foreign governments aid,basically money we borrowed from china.This goes beyond all reason.

As long as our government keeps up this stupidity we stay in debt for a long time.

So how do you feel.

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BuQYffys8pg[/ame]
 
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Some aid is counter productive some isnt some is politically pragmatic.You cant just put it down to right or wrong.
 
Regardless of whatever else, note that 45% of our 3.7 Trillion budget is deficit spending, indebting us and our children and grandchildren, and mostly to China.

When you can't pay your monthly expenses, when you're borrowing an amount equal to your paycheck every month to pay your own bills and debts, would you still keep handing out huge sums of money to every bum on the street, including the ones that would like to kill you?
 
Regardless of whatever else, note that 45% of our 3.7 Trillion budget is deficit spending, indebting us and our children and grandchildren, and mostly to China.

When you can't pay your monthly expenses, when you're borrowing an amount equal to your paycheck every month to pay your own bills and debts, would you still keep handing out huge sums of money to every bum on the street, including the ones that would like to kill you?

Would you keep paying all of those bills if you could eliminate some of them?

Edit: And I don't like the poll options.

My personal opinion is that some foreign aid is necessary, and some is not. I have no idea what is or is not, but it seems only reasonable that this is the case.
 
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Would you keep paying all of those bills if you could eliminate some ofthem?

An individual or household who is in this dire strait, faces the following choices:

1. Cut back (eliminate or reduce bills and expenses, starting with luxuries like entertainment and charity.)

2. Keep spending and eventually declare bankruptcy.


The Fed can keep on spending for a time, since it can print its own money...but the bill will come due at some point.
 
Regardless of whatever else, note that 45% of our 3.7 Trillion budget is deficit spending, indebting us and our children and grandchildren, and mostly to China.

When you can't pay your monthly expenses, when you're borrowing an amount equal to your paycheck every month to pay your own bills and debts, would you still keep handing out huge sums of money to every bum on the street, including the ones that would like to kill you?

if that moneys providing more of a return than other expenditures, yes.
U cut where its smart. Not just where its CALLED aid.
 
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An individual or household who is in this dire strait, faces the following choices:

1. Cut back (eliminate or reduce bills and expenses, starting with luxuries like entertainment and charity.)

2. Keep spending and eventually declare bankruptcy.


The Fed can keep on spending for a time, since it can print its own money...but the bill will come due at some point.

If we stopped giving foreign aid, then we would still have a huge defecit. So, the choices aren't between having a big defecit with foreign aid or a ballanced budget.

I do think though that foreign aid is MORE IMPORTANT then most domestic welfare though. Even though the "poor" in America are in bad shape, the truely poor in the rest of the world need our help much more.

From my priorities anyway, it doesn't make sense to throw away some of the better spending because of a defecit, when ideally we should try and get rid of other less nescesary spending.


anyway... we are in a recession, so defecit spending is more acceptable now.
After the recession we should just scrap or revamp most of medicare and non-SS federal weflare to ballance the budget, but keep foreign aid at its current level, or increase it.

And if anything, our foreign aid should be focused on INVESTMENTS for third world countries instead of just handing out food that doesn't fix any problem.
 
Absolutely no way should a nation that's borrowing money be handing money to it's enemies. We don't have any friends, and shouldn't be trying to buy them.
 
If we stopped giving foreign aid, then we would still have a huge defecit. So, the choices aren't between having a big defecit with foreign aid or a ballanced budget.

The choices are between spending money we don't have, and spending a lot more money we don't have.

The choice is easy.

Don't spend any money we don't have, not a dime.

If that means starting with foreign aid, which is a huge chunk of change, that's fine.

I do think though that foreign aid is MORE IMPORTANT then most domestic welfare though. Even though the "poor" in America are in bad shape, the truely poor in the rest of the world need our help much more.

Screw 'em, not our problem. Tell all of them that China has the money and if China doesn't want to give it away, they should take it up with Beijing, not Washington and The Messiah.

Their plight isn't an American problem.

Seriously, it's not.

From my priorities anyway, it doesn't make sense to throw away some of the better spending because of a defecit,

Foreign aid isn't "better" spending, it's just waste.

Better spending is defined by the Constitution, and somewhere around 90% of the federal budget isn't allowed by the Constitution. So it would be damn easy to balance the budget, if we obeyed our own highest laws.

when ideally we should try and get rid of other less nescesary spending.

Borrowing money to waste on foreigners who hate us is the most useless spending we can conceive of.

anyway... we are in a recession, so defecit spending is more acceptable now.

No, it's not.

It's less acceptable, even if The Messiah is pushing it.

After the recession we should just scrap or revamp most of medicare and non-SS federal weflare to ballance the budget, but keep foreign aid at its current level, or increase it.

Right.

Don't spend money on Americans, money we're not allowed by the Constitution to spend anyway, but by all means continue to waste money we don't have on countries and people that hate us.

And if anything, our foreign aid should be focused on INVESTMENTS for third world countries instead of just handing out food that doesn't fix any problem.

Our foreign aid should be stopped, and our companies should be told they're free to invest in foreign countries without fear of being punished for "outsourcing" or any of the other anti-capitalist, anti-freedom nonsense the socialists have dreamed up to punish people for protecting their money from the socialists.
 
So when is it the governments place to use our money to help others? Dont get me wrong I have nothing agaisnt helping those less fortunate but that should be up to the individual and not the government. With the way our government has been spending money it may not be long and we will need Africa to send us aid.
 
A nation that is borrowing money should never give out money to other countries. Even when a nation is not in debt that nation should not be giving out money to other countries. Its like the city that builds money draining stadiums/arenas and decorative sidewalks and decorative streets in their downtown area and then whines it has no money for streets and other things that need to be fixed or replaced. Foreign aid may not be a huge chunk of money but eliminating it would make us closer to paying out debts off.
 
Our foreign aid should be stopped, and our companies should be told they're free to invest in foreign countries without fear of being punished for "outsourcing" or any of the other anti-capitalist, anti-freedom nonsense the socialists have dreamed up to punish people for protecting their money from the socialists.

well... i can agree with you that our citizens should be able to invest their money anywhere they want in the world, which they are anyway, because that is the best way to help the poor.

The 2008 Statistical Abstract : Foreign Aid

We do give large amounts of money to nations that DO like us and need help, with many African nations and Egypt being good examples. At least with Africa, I saw on a poll a year ago that many nations in Africa view America as a stabilizing force. But of course, there is still many nations all throughout the world that are not very friendly to us but still recieve our aid.

We need to remember that one reason many nations may not be too friendly with us is BECAUSE we don't provide very much aid to all nations. But of course the main reason would be from harmful things we do around the world, and not our lack of foreign aid.


Also, large amount of our foreign aid comes with requirements that the money is used for specific projects in our interest. This includes money to combat drugs in Columbia or aid for Iraq or Afganistan to stabilze the country by helping its people. Even if you disagree with our involvement in Iraq or Afganistan, it is in the interest of our curreny policies to be supporting those nations.


But there is many nations that we shouldn't be supporting of course though. We should shouldn't throw out foreign aid from some faulty policies.
 
well... i can agree with you that our citizens should be able to invest their money anywhere they want in the world, which they are anyway, because that is the best way to help the poor.

I don't give a crap about that. People should be free to invest their money where they want because it's where they want to invest it, regardless of "the poor".

It's their money.

We do give large amounts of money to nations that DO like us and need help,

Let's see how well they like us when we stop buying their affection. What are they, Saint Bernards?

We need to remember that one reason many nations may not be too friendly with us is BECAUSE we don't provide very much aid to all nations.[

Ah, honest nations. Good for them. They don't like us, and they don't have our money.

We should make sure they continue to not have our money, and endeavor to make sure as many other nations as possible can begin to enjoy this respectable state of affairs as soon as possible.

Since we don't have the money to throw away, that day should be tomorrow.

Also, large amount of our foreign aid comes with requirements that the money is used for specific projects in our interest. This includes money to combat drugs in Columbia

That's no in our interest.

or aid for Iraq

We broke it, we gotta pay for it.

or Afganistan to stabilze the country by helping its people.

Screw'em, it's cheaper to seed their land with dioxin and cobalt. We went to war with them because they killed three thousand Americans and guests in New York and at the Pentagon. We don't owe them squat, they should be paying us.

But there is many nations that we shouldn't be supporting of course though. We should shouldn't throw out foreign aid from some faulty policies.

Well, socialists will be socialists, where's Ragnar Danneskjöld when he's really needed, huh?
 
The idea behind foreign aid is that the dividends far outweigh the actual amount being spent.

Who gets U.S. Foreign Aid? | Parade.com

Do you people actually think we're giving aid to Israel/Egypt/Pakistan/Jordan/etc. out of the goodness of our hearts? The State Dept. doesn't give a **** about whether poor folks in those countries have food, they're giving out the money in order to keep **** under control so that we have lower costs in the end.

The amount of money spent on the type of welfare that people generally think about when they hear "foreign aid" is a pittance.
 
I don't give a crap about that. People should be free to invest their money where they want because it's where they want to invest it, regardless of "the poor".

It's their money.



Let's see how well they like us when we stop buying their affection. What are they, Saint Bernards?



Ah, honest nations. Good for them. They don't like us, and they don't have our money.

We should make sure they continue to not have our money, and endeavor to make sure as many other nations as possible can begin to enjoy this respectable state of affairs as soon as possible.

Since we don't have the money to throw away, that day should be tomorrow.



That's no in our interest.



We broke it, we gotta pay for it.



Screw'em, it's cheaper to seed their land with dioxin and cobalt. We went to war with them because they killed three thousand Americans and guests in New York and at the Pentagon. We don't owe them squat, they should be paying us.



Well, socialists will be socialists, where's Ragnar Danneskjöld when he's really needed, huh?

I just don't see how you can place America so much above people around the world. Sure, you can argue that things like socialism and foreign aid DON't help other people around the world, but I have trouble understanding how you could just not care about them.

Even if being selfish is the best way to help everyone the most, it is important to recongnize that the reason that being selfish is a good idea is still for the greater good.
 
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The idea behind foreign aid is that the dividends far outweigh the actual amount being spent.

Who gets U.S. Foreign Aid? | Parade.com

Do you people actually think we're giving aid to Israel/Egypt/Pakistan/Jordan/etc. out of the goodness of our hearts? The State Dept. doesn't give a **** about whether poor folks in those countries have food, they're giving out the money in order to keep **** under control so that we have lower costs in the end.

The amount of money spent on the type of welfare that people generally think about when they hear "foreign aid" is a pittance.

I looked at the list, and maybe around 1/3 or 1/4 (?) is truely welfare for the poor around the world. So even though most of it is for tactical reasons, we still do alot of help (from some of the money anyway)
 
The idea behind foreign aid is that the dividends far outweigh the actual amount being spent.

Who gets U.S. Foreign Aid? | Parade.com

Do you people actually think we're giving aid to Israel/Egypt/Pakistan/Jordan/etc. out of the goodness of our hearts? The State Dept. doesn't give a **** about whether poor folks in those countries have food, they're giving out the money in order to keep **** under control so that we have lower costs in the end.

The amount of money spent on the type of welfare that people generally think about when they hear "foreign aid" is a pittance.


Actually, it doesn't. Especially when the nation has to borrow the money in the first place. Then there's the minor fact that it's not the State Department's money their throwing about willy nilly, no, its the money someone worked hard to earn, to feed his family and pay for internet porn. No matter, it is his money, not the State Department's.
 
I just don't see how you can place America so much above people around the world.

Easy.

Who's the rest of the world turn to when they need money, a handy aircraft carrier task force to dig them out of a tsunami, or someone to bitch about?

Us.

Must be a reason.

That reason is because we're better than they are, and we should start acting like it, by making them earn the money we waste on them.

but I have trouble understanding how you could just not care about them.

It's easy.

All you have to do is figure out what six billion people means.

If you can't figure it out, you don't actually care about them, you're just pretending.

Even if being selfish is the best way to help everyone the most, it is important to recongnize that the reason that being selfish is a good idea is still for the greater good.

No, being selfish is for the individual's greatest good. That selfishness leads inevitably to economic growth, and hence what some see as a mythical "greater" good is completely irrelevant. The only responsibilities one man has for anyone else are those responsibilities he chooses via word or deed without compulsion.

Nothing wrong with that, after all, the mindless robotic masses that whine that someone is being "selfish" are just being selfish themselves, and jealous that they haven't been able to rob the successful yet. That's all the perpetual background whine you hear is about, envy.
 
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Easy.

Who's the rest of the world turn to when they need money, a handy aircraft carrier task force to dig them out of a tsunami, or someone to bitch about?

Us.

Must be a reason.

That reason is because we're better than they are, and we should start acting like it, by making them earn the money we waste on them.



It's easy.

All you have to do is figure out what six billion people means.

If you can't figure it out, you don't actually care about them, you're just pretending.



No, being selfish is for the individual's greatest good. That selfishness leads inevitably to economic growth, and hence what some see as a mythical "greater" good is completely irrelevant. The only responsibilities one man has for anyone else are those responsibilities he chooses via word or deed without compulsion.

Nothing wrong with that, after all, the mindless robotic masses that whine that someone is being "selfish" are just being selfish themselves, and jealous that they haven't been able to rob the successful yet. That's all the perpetual background whine you hear is about, envy.

You can claim that being selfish has to be for the individual's good, but that does not make much sense if one person is able to slightly benefit when many other people around them are forced to greatly suffer.

If something doesn't help people overall, then it really has no value. That seems pretty odvious. Should we sacrifice the world for an individual? of course not.
The real question in this is HOW we can help the most amount of people the most, but we can only get to that after we decide to actually think about a way to get that done.

Remember we still need things like limits to mob democracy and a law system to better everyone, this does not mean a political free for all. That would lead to an eventual dictatorship, which is not good for the greater good.


But you are right that other people envy American wealth, but we need to ask ourselves if that envy is validated or not.

Many people from all over the world really do wish that they had the wealth that Americans have, and it isn't that they all want to take it from us, but that they just want an opportunity to compete and then excell.

If you look at the jobs in many developing nations they are much, much more strenuous and have lower pay then the worst mininum wage job in the US. Those people are not useless demanders, they just have no way to better their lives.


There is way too many people on the Earth, that is why we should focus our welfare on getting people out of poverty, and not just simply giving food to people where we will just slow their death a few years.
That is the best choice for the most amount of people, individual selfishness has nothing to do with it.
 
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Should we as a country still be giving foreign governments aid,basically money we borrowed from china.This goes beyond all reason.

As long as our government keeps up this stupidity we stay in debt for a long time.

So how do you feel.

The way I see it the Third World aids us with cheap goods so its only fair that we pay them back
 
You can claim that being selfish has to be for the individual's good, but that does not make much sense if one person is able to slightly benefit when many other people around them are forced to greatly suffer.

I'll keep that in mind when I have the only gun and the only water on the lifeboat, and my kids need a drink and you do, too.

If something doesn't help people overall, then it really has no value.

Nonsense.

Values are assigned by people, not some absolute Marxist God.

Should we sacrifice the world for an individual? of course not.

Hmmmmm....destroy all the people to save my kid....no, that's not a hard choice, but I'll make the concession that I'll have to save at least a handful of others or my kid would get lonely. Other than that, if I had to make the choice, it's too bad for the world.

Anyone with a kid that says otherwise is diseased.

The real question in this is HOW we can help the most amount of people the most,

No, I can't say that question ever wandered across my mind. If they're worth helping, guess what? They're already helping themselves and don't need my input. If they're sitting around waiting for me to help them, they deserve to die.

Remember we still need things like limits to mob democracy and a law system to better everyone, this does not mean a political free for all. That would lead to an eventual dictatorship, which is not good for the greater good.

Socialism leads to dictatorship.

But you are right that other people envy American wealth, but we need to ask ourselves if that envy is validated or not.

Why, are we parked in a lot they're sponsoring?

Many people from all over the world really do wish that they had the wealth that Americans have, and it isn't that they all want to take it from us, but that they just want an opportunity to compete and then excell.

So? Let them get rid of the governments they have to prevent this. First, they'll have to get rid of all the socialists, who, of course, are the biggest road block to freedom.

There is way too many people on the Earth, that is why we should focus our welfare on getting people out of poverty,

You mean, "which is why we shouldn't be paying welfare to people who can't afford to breed." Also, if there's too many people in the world, shouldn't we stop throwing good food at them, if they can't feed themselves?
 
Actually, it doesn't. Especially when the nation has to borrow the money in the first place. Then there's the minor fact that it's not the State Department's money their throwing about willy nilly, no, its the money someone worked hard to earn, to feed his family and pay for internet porn. No matter, it is his money, not the State Department's.

Why do people keep trotting out this tired bull**** as if it's actually an argument?

We get it, all government taxes are evil and you deserve to keep every penny of your earnings because you're a true rugged individualist. cool.
 
Why do people keep trotting out this tired bull**** as if it's actually an argument?

We get it, all government taxes are evil and you deserve to keep every penny of your earnings because you're a true rugged individualist. cool.

You did just confess that they're MY earnings.

That's all that needs saying.
 
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