View Poll Results: world welfare

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  • yes still give foreign aid

    11 32.35%
  • no stop foreign aid

    19 55.88%
  • I don't care

    4 11.76%
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Thread: world welfare

  1. #11
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    Re: world welfare

    Quote Originally Posted by nerv14 View Post
    If we stopped giving foreign aid, then we would still have a huge defecit. So, the choices aren't between having a big defecit with foreign aid or a ballanced budget.
    The choices are between spending money we don't have, and spending a lot more money we don't have.

    The choice is easy.

    Don't spend any money we don't have, not a dime.

    If that means starting with foreign aid, which is a huge chunk of change, that's fine.

    Quote Originally Posted by nerv14 View Post
    I do think though that foreign aid is MORE IMPORTANT then most domestic welfare though. Even though the "poor" in America are in bad shape, the truely poor in the rest of the world need our help much more.
    Screw 'em, not our problem. Tell all of them that China has the money and if China doesn't want to give it away, they should take it up with Beijing, not Washington and The Messiah.

    Their plight isn't an American problem.

    Seriously, it's not.

    Quote Originally Posted by nerv14 View Post
    From my priorities anyway, it doesn't make sense to throw away some of the better spending because of a defecit,
    Foreign aid isn't "better" spending, it's just waste.

    Better spending is defined by the Constitution, and somewhere around 90% of the federal budget isn't allowed by the Constitution. So it would be damn easy to balance the budget, if we obeyed our own highest laws.

    Quote Originally Posted by nerv14 View Post
    when ideally we should try and get rid of other less nescesary spending.
    Borrowing money to waste on foreigners who hate us is the most useless spending we can conceive of.

    Quote Originally Posted by nerv14 View Post
    anyway... we are in a recession, so defecit spending is more acceptable now.
    No, it's not.

    It's less acceptable, even if The Messiah is pushing it.

    Quote Originally Posted by nerv14 View Post
    After the recession we should just scrap or revamp most of medicare and non-SS federal weflare to ballance the budget, but keep foreign aid at its current level, or increase it.
    Right.

    Don't spend money on Americans, money we're not allowed by the Constitution to spend anyway, but by all means continue to waste money we don't have on countries and people that hate us.

    Quote Originally Posted by nerv14 View Post
    And if anything, our foreign aid should be focused on INVESTMENTS for third world countries instead of just handing out food that doesn't fix any problem.
    Our foreign aid should be stopped, and our companies should be told they're free to invest in foreign countries without fear of being punished for "outsourcing" or any of the other anti-capitalist, anti-freedom nonsense the socialists have dreamed up to punish people for protecting their money from the socialists.

  2. #12
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    Re: world welfare

    So when is it the governments place to use our money to help others? Dont get me wrong I have nothing agaisnt helping those less fortunate but that should be up to the individual and not the government. With the way our government has been spending money it may not be long and we will need Africa to send us aid.

  3. #13
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    Re: world welfare

    A nation that is borrowing money should never give out money to other countries. Even when a nation is not in debt that nation should not be giving out money to other countries. Its like the city that builds money draining stadiums/arenas and decorative sidewalks and decorative streets in their downtown area and then whines it has no money for streets and other things that need to be fixed or replaced. Foreign aid may not be a huge chunk of money but eliminating it would make us closer to paying out debts off.
    "A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within. An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for he is known and carries his banner openly. But the traitor moves amongst those within the gate freely, his sly whispers rustling through all the alleys, heard in the very halls of government itself. For the traitor appears not a traitor; he speaks in accents familiar to his victims, and he wears their face and their arguments, he appeals to the baseness that lies deep in the hearts of all men. He rots the soul of a nation, he works secretly and unknown in the night to undermine the pillars of the city, he infects the body politic so that it can no longer resist. A murder is less to fear"

    Cicero Marcus Tullius

  4. #14
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    Re: world welfare

    Quote Originally Posted by Scarecrow Akhbar View Post
    Our foreign aid should be stopped, and our companies should be told they're free to invest in foreign countries without fear of being punished for "outsourcing" or any of the other anti-capitalist, anti-freedom nonsense the socialists have dreamed up to punish people for protecting their money from the socialists.
    well... i can agree with you that our citizens should be able to invest their money anywhere they want in the world, which they are anyway, because that is the best way to help the poor.

    The 2008 Statistical Abstract : Foreign Aid

    We do give large amounts of money to nations that DO like us and need help, with many African nations and Egypt being good examples. At least with Africa, I saw on a poll a year ago that many nations in Africa view America as a stabilizing force. But of course, there is still many nations all throughout the world that are not very friendly to us but still recieve our aid.

    We need to remember that one reason many nations may not be too friendly with us is BECAUSE we don't provide very much aid to all nations. But of course the main reason would be from harmful things we do around the world, and not our lack of foreign aid.


    Also, large amount of our foreign aid comes with requirements that the money is used for specific projects in our interest. This includes money to combat drugs in Columbia or aid for Iraq or Afganistan to stabilze the country by helping its people. Even if you disagree with our involvement in Iraq or Afganistan, it is in the interest of our curreny policies to be supporting those nations.


    But there is many nations that we shouldn't be supporting of course though. We should shouldn't throw out foreign aid from some faulty policies.

  5. #15
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    Re: world welfare

    Quote Originally Posted by nerv14 View Post
    well... i can agree with you that our citizens should be able to invest their money anywhere they want in the world, which they are anyway, because that is the best way to help the poor.
    I don't give a crap about that. People should be free to invest their money where they want because it's where they want to invest it, regardless of "the poor".

    It's their money.

    Quote Originally Posted by nerv14 View Post
    We do give large amounts of money to nations that DO like us and need help,
    Let's see how well they like us when we stop buying their affection. What are they, Saint Bernards?

    Quote Originally Posted by nerv14 View Post
    We need to remember that one reason many nations may not be too friendly with us is BECAUSE we don't provide very much aid to all nations.[
    Ah, honest nations. Good for them. They don't like us, and they don't have our money.

    We should make sure they continue to not have our money, and endeavor to make sure as many other nations as possible can begin to enjoy this respectable state of affairs as soon as possible.

    Since we don't have the money to throw away, that day should be tomorrow.

    Quote Originally Posted by nerv14 View Post
    Also, large amount of our foreign aid comes with requirements that the money is used for specific projects in our interest. This includes money to combat drugs in Columbia
    That's no in our interest.

    Quote Originally Posted by nerv14 View Post
    or aid for Iraq
    We broke it, we gotta pay for it.

    Quote Originally Posted by nerv14 View Post
    or Afganistan to stabilze the country by helping its people.
    Screw'em, it's cheaper to seed their land with dioxin and cobalt. We went to war with them because they killed three thousand Americans and guests in New York and at the Pentagon. We don't owe them squat, they should be paying us.

    Quote Originally Posted by nerv14 View Post
    But there is many nations that we shouldn't be supporting of course though. We should shouldn't throw out foreign aid from some faulty policies.
    Well, socialists will be socialists, where's Ragnar Danneskjöld when he's really needed, huh?

  6. #16
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    Re: world welfare

    The idea behind foreign aid is that the dividends far outweigh the actual amount being spent.

    Who gets U.S. Foreign Aid? | Parade.com

    Do you people actually think we're giving aid to Israel/Egypt/Pakistan/Jordan/etc. out of the goodness of our hearts? The State Dept. doesn't give a **** about whether poor folks in those countries have food, they're giving out the money in order to keep **** under control so that we have lower costs in the end.

    The amount of money spent on the type of welfare that people generally think about when they hear "foreign aid" is a pittance.
    People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.

  7. #17
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    Re: world welfare

    Quote Originally Posted by Scarecrow Akhbar View Post
    I don't give a crap about that. People should be free to invest their money where they want because it's where they want to invest it, regardless of "the poor".

    It's their money.



    Let's see how well they like us when we stop buying their affection. What are they, Saint Bernards?



    Ah, honest nations. Good for them. They don't like us, and they don't have our money.

    We should make sure they continue to not have our money, and endeavor to make sure as many other nations as possible can begin to enjoy this respectable state of affairs as soon as possible.

    Since we don't have the money to throw away, that day should be tomorrow.



    That's no in our interest.



    We broke it, we gotta pay for it.



    Screw'em, it's cheaper to seed their land with dioxin and cobalt. We went to war with them because they killed three thousand Americans and guests in New York and at the Pentagon. We don't owe them squat, they should be paying us.



    Well, socialists will be socialists, where's Ragnar Danneskjöld when he's really needed, huh?
    I just don't see how you can place America so much above people around the world. Sure, you can argue that things like socialism and foreign aid DON't help other people around the world, but I have trouble understanding how you could just not care about them.

    Even if being selfish is the best way to help everyone the most, it is important to recongnize that the reason that being selfish is a good idea is still for the greater good.
    Last edited by nerv14; 06-16-09 at 12:03 AM.

  8. #18
    Educator nerv14's Avatar
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    Re: world welfare

    Quote Originally Posted by RightinNYC View Post
    The idea behind foreign aid is that the dividends far outweigh the actual amount being spent.

    Who gets U.S. Foreign Aid? | Parade.com

    Do you people actually think we're giving aid to Israel/Egypt/Pakistan/Jordan/etc. out of the goodness of our hearts? The State Dept. doesn't give a **** about whether poor folks in those countries have food, they're giving out the money in order to keep **** under control so that we have lower costs in the end.

    The amount of money spent on the type of welfare that people generally think about when they hear "foreign aid" is a pittance.
    I looked at the list, and maybe around 1/3 or 1/4 (?) is truely welfare for the poor around the world. So even though most of it is for tactical reasons, we still do alot of help (from some of the money anyway)

  9. #19
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    Re: world welfare

    Quote Originally Posted by RightinNYC View Post
    The idea behind foreign aid is that the dividends far outweigh the actual amount being spent.

    Who gets U.S. Foreign Aid? | Parade.com

    Do you people actually think we're giving aid to Israel/Egypt/Pakistan/Jordan/etc. out of the goodness of our hearts? The State Dept. doesn't give a **** about whether poor folks in those countries have food, they're giving out the money in order to keep **** under control so that we have lower costs in the end.

    The amount of money spent on the type of welfare that people generally think about when they hear "foreign aid" is a pittance.

    Actually, it doesn't. Especially when the nation has to borrow the money in the first place. Then there's the minor fact that it's not the State Department's money their throwing about willy nilly, no, its the money someone worked hard to earn, to feed his family and pay for internet porn. No matter, it is his money, not the State Department's.

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    Re: world welfare

    Quote Originally Posted by nerv14 View Post
    I just don't see how you can place America so much above people around the world.
    Easy.

    Who's the rest of the world turn to when they need money, a handy aircraft carrier task force to dig them out of a tsunami, or someone to bitch about?

    Us.

    Must be a reason.

    That reason is because we're better than they are, and we should start acting like it, by making them earn the money we waste on them.

    Quote Originally Posted by nerv14 View Post
    but I have trouble understanding how you could just not care about them.
    It's easy.

    All you have to do is figure out what six billion people means.

    If you can't figure it out, you don't actually care about them, you're just pretending.

    Quote Originally Posted by nerv14 View Post
    Even if being selfish is the best way to help everyone the most, it is important to recongnize that the reason that being selfish is a good idea is still for the greater good.
    No, being selfish is for the individual's greatest good. That selfishness leads inevitably to economic growth, and hence what some see as a mythical "greater" good is completely irrelevant. The only responsibilities one man has for anyone else are those responsibilities he chooses via word or deed without compulsion.

    Nothing wrong with that, after all, the mindless robotic masses that whine that someone is being "selfish" are just being selfish themselves, and jealous that they haven't been able to rob the successful yet. That's all the perpetual background whine you hear is about, envy.
    Last edited by Scarecrow Akhbar; 06-16-09 at 01:05 AM.

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