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Bush's Presidency

How do You rate George W. Bush's Presidency?

  • He's The Best President We've Ever Had

    Votes: 3 3.7%

  • He Was One Of The Best

    Votes: 6 7.3%

  • He Was Pretty Good

    Votes: 8 9.8%

  • He's Alright

    Votes: 6 7.3%

  • He Was Kind Of Bad

    Votes: 13 15.9%

  • He Was One Of The Worst

    Votes: 35 42.7%

  • He Was The Worst

    Votes: 11 13.4%
  • Total voters
    82
In regards to Hurricane Katrina and FEMA please remember:

It isn't FEMA's job to rescue people in disaster zones from rooftops.
 
stekim said:
Actually, as far as comparisons go, I think both Clinton and Reagan were quite good. They both had their mistakes, of course, and I typically disagree with most Presidents quite a bit, but when pitted against Carter, Bush 1, Bush 2, Nixon and Ford, Reagan and Clinton come out on top.
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You do understand that George Sr. was really Mr. Reagans third term
 
Dayton3 said:
In regards to Hurricane Katrina and FEMA please remember:

It isn't FEMA's job to rescue people in disaster zones from rooftops.
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Hurricane Katrina is one of the best examples of media left-spin I've ever witnessed.

Truth: The rescue operation in the aftermath of Hurricane Katrina was one of the largest and most successful civilian rescue operations in history. If a similar disaster had taken place in Europe, Asia, South America, Russia, or anywhere else on earth, tens or hundreds of thousands would have died. The death toll from Katrina is estimated at about 1,800 or so. The first-responders launched a massive, thorough, and relentless effort to rescue stranded victims, most of whom could and should have evacuated days earlier.

Spin: The Katrina disaster, as a result of Bush and FEMA's slow and inadequate response and bumbling, resulted in countless deaths and untold human suffering.

:doh
 
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Scorpion89 said:
You do understand that George Sr. was really Mr. Reagans third term
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You do understand that Bill Clinton won only 43% of the popular vote in 1992. If not for Ross Perot's media-supported third part candidacy, George Sr. would easily have defeated Clinton.

Third party candidates who take GOP votes generally receive enormous media attention. Third party candidates who take democrat votes, such as Ralph Nader, are generally written off in the media as intrusions.

:cool:
 
Grateful Heart said:
What's more astonishing is that most who remember Clinton as "top of the list" can name few substantive accomplishments during his presidency. Rather, they list warm fuzzies like 'times were good' or 'America was respected around the world.' Perhaps they think 'topping the list' simply means making the most talk show appearances...

YouTube - Bill and Hillary Clinton on Arsenio Hall
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What's is even more astonishing is how people have to make wildly inaccurate statements like the above to try and prove their point.
 
Grateful Heart said:
What's more astonishing is that most who remember Clinton as "top of the list" can name few substantive accomplishments during his presidency. Rather, they list warm fuzzies like 'times were good' or 'America was respected around the world.' Perhaps they think 'topping the list' simply means making the most talk show appearances...

YouTube - Bill and Hillary Clinton on Arsenio Hall
Click to expand...

Ok... im pretty sure for this thread and many others I brought up the good things that Clinton did one to refuttes them. Clinton wasn't an amamzing president by any standards, but he did well, and he certainly was't a poor president.

He fixed budget (by slowing the increases in debt to GDP, and reversing it), got the North America Free Trade Agreement, reformed welfare and kept America out of entengling military alliances.
 
nerv14 said:
Ok... im pretty sure for this thread and many others I brought up the good things that Clinton did one to refuttes them. Clinton wasn't an amamzing president by any standards, but he did well, and he certainly was't a poor president.

He fixed budget (by slowing the increases in debt to GDP, and reversing it), got the North America Free Trade Agreement, reformed welfare and kept America out of entengling military alliances.
Click to expand...

Budget

Clinton got this passed AFTER the Republicans took control of Congress.

North American Free Trade Agreement-began by Bush I, passed with massive Republican (not so much Democratic )support.

Welfare Reform?- VETOED by Clinton TWICE. He signed it only afte his political adviser Dick Morris told him he would lose in 1996 if he vetoed it again.

Kept America out of entangling military alliances?

You do realize that Clinton launched more military operations during his 8 years than President Bush did don't you?

Not to mention the expansion of NATO under President Clinton which for good or ill is pretty much the definition of an "entangling alliance".
 
Dayton3 said:
Budget

Clinton got this passed AFTER the Republicans took control of Congress.

North American Free Trade Agreement-began by Bush I, passed with massive Republican (not so much Democratic )support.

Welfare Reform?- VETOED by Clinton TWICE. He signed it only afte his political adviser Dick Morris told him he would lose in 1996 if he vetoed it again.

Kept America out of entangling military alliances?

You do realize that Clinton launched more military operations during his 8 years than President Bush did don't you?

Not to mention the expansion of NATO under President Clinton which for good or ill is pretty much the definition of an "entangling alliance".
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I think Clinton would have done much worse if it wasn't for the Republican Congress.

Bill Clinton increased taxes very early, and that was the first step in ballancing the budget. I don't care where Clinton got the idea, unlike Bush and Obama as well as the two presidents before Clinton, Bill actually carried it out.

I don't care WHY Bill Clinton eventually got welfare reform, it was a good idea. He is a politician, he does what people like, and that gets him ellected. Thats politics.

Clinton was smart and launched military operations in a way that was the best for the US. A strong force, and then he solves the problem (or as much as he could) and then leaves soon after. Much different from Iraq or Afganistan. I just wish Clinton took more of an innitiave in Rowanda though, regardless of the consequences.
Sorry, I mispoke. I don't have much of a problem with a military alliance with our allies (especially if it doesn't force us to be in long constant struggles) but its forced military operations in other countries that are more dangerous.


And that is why the government under Clinton did a good job. I grade the presidents on their end result with how hard their problems were, not so much how they get there.
 
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nerv14 said:
Ok... im pretty sure for this thread and many others I brought up the good things that Clinton did one to refuttes them.
Click to expand...

You did mention Clinton earlier in this thread with few specifics.

nerv14 said:
Bill Clinton may have done some military engagements in Europe, but he didn't take America out of the Cold War into any new long involvements that we shouldn't have been in.

But of course, Bush's biggest fault was his increased medicare funding along with his tax cuts that drastically increased the defecit (during a healthy economy) compared with Clinton's great fiscal policy.
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If fiscal policy (balancing the budget) is your defense of Clinton then I won't argue the point.

It only drives home the insanity that is our current administration's policy of endless, unaccountable spending.

:2wave:
 
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Grateful Heart said:
If fiscal policy (balancing the budget) is your defense of Clinton then I won't argue the point.

It only drives home the insanity that is our current administration's policy of endless, unaccountable spending.
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Can't someone like Bill for overseeing the balance of the budget, and not like Obama for overseeing the massive increase of the budget, at the same time?

Or have you decided that all judgments are made based on partisan leanings?
 
Dav said:
Can't someone like Bill for overseeing the balance of the budget, and not like Obama for overseeing the massive increase of the budget, at the same time?

Or have you decided that all judgments are made based on partisan leanings?
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If I had made an argument that someone can't like Bill and not like Obama then your second question might merit a response.
 
Grateful Heart said:
If I had made an argument that someone can't like Bill and not like Obama then your second question might merit a response.
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Isn't that what you did though? You said that you won't bother refuting Clinton's achievement because it emphasizes Obama's failure, which would imply that one's opinion of the two would have to be connected.
 
Dav said:
Isn't that what you did though? You said that you won't bother refuting Clinton's achievement because it emphasizes Obama's failure, which would imply that one's opinion of the two would have to be connected.
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On the contrary, it implies that on this issue his opinion of the two are connected. He made no claim that everyone had to suscribe to this opinion.
 
wbreese91 said:
On the contrary, it implies that on this issue his opinion of the two are connected. He made no claim that everyone had to suscribe to this opinion.
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OK, I obviously got that one wrong.

I'll shut up now :3oops:
 
Dav said:
OK, I obviously got that one wrong.

I'll shut up now :3oops:
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By no means. We all make mistakes sometimes. Keep your opinions coming! That is afterall the point of this forum.
 
nerv14 said:
I think Clinton would have done much worse if it wasn't for the Republican Congress.

Bill Clinton increased taxes very early, and that was the first step in ballancing the budget. I don't care where Clinton got the idea, unlike Bush and Obama as well as the two presidents before Clinton, Bill actually carried it out.
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Clinton never ballanced the budget.

He never even balanced it. Not on the books, not on the end of his nose, the budget hasn't been balanced since before Nixon.
 
Dav said:
Can't someone like Bill for overseeing the balance of the budget, and not like Obama for overseeing the massive increase of the budget, at the same time?

Or have you decided that all judgments are made based on partisan leanings?
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One has to weigh The Rapist President against his entire eight year term, and not just for the one "accomplishment" that didn't actually happen.

Clinton has to be judged as the most corrupt president in history, as the man who allowed a major campaign donor, Loral Corp, to sell MIRV technology to the Chinese, who failed at every foreign policy venture embarked on, who was impeached for comitting a felony, perjury, and who later paid fines for, and who basically never did anything without first checking if it benefitted him personally, and then checking if it benefitted his party, and never worrying about whether or not it benefitted the country.
 
Scarecrow Akhbar said:
Clinton never ballanced the budget.

He never even balanced it. Not on the books, not on the end of his nose, the budget hasn't been balanced since before Nixon.
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www.headybrew.net - Federal Budget Deficit Spending Chart
budget_deficit_or_surplus.gif


....
 
American said:
The military sucked during the Clinton years. Bearly any money for research.
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Did you know that the Predator was developed during Clinton's administration?
 
I don't think many who look at the numbers will argue that the deficit wasn't reduced under Bill Clinton.

What's really important is to understand why it was reduced.

It was reduced, in large part, because Clinton was dealing with a GOP controlled Congress which killed large spending proposals such as universal health care. And as others have pointed out, the military was cut dramatically during the 1990s. Pointing to a program here or there that was initiated or got increased funding doesn't change the fact that military spending decreased dramatically during his administration LINK. And to be fair, that trend started before he took office with the so-called 'peace dividend' at the end of the Cold War in 1989.

U.S. deficit reduction was assisted greatly by the dot-com bubble which resulted in soaring stock markets and increased tax revenue. That bubble burst in 2000, leading in large part to the recession of 2000 and 2001.

One could argue whether the peace dividend or the dot-com bubble were related to Clinton policies. But what is certain is this... Bill Clinton never went on the wild spending spree that we're witnessing now. Not even close. If he had, that chart posted a bit earlier would look much, much different.

:cool:
 
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Grateful Heart said:
I don't think many who look at the numbers will argue that the deficit wasn't reduced under Bill Clinton.

What's really important is to understand why it was reduced.

It was reduced, in large part, because Clinton was dealing with a GOP controlled Congress which killed large spending proposals such as universal health care. And as others have pointed out, the military was cut dramatically during the 1990s. Pointing to a program here or there that was initiated or got increased funding doesn't change the fact that military spending decreased dramatically during his administration LINK. And to be fair, that trend started before he took office with the so-called 'peace dividend' at the end of the Cold War in 1989.

U.S. deficit reduction was assisted greatly by the dot-com bubble which resulted in soaring stock markets and increased tax revenue. That bubble burst in 2000, leading in large part to the recession of 2000 and 2001.

One could argue whether the peace dividend or the dot-com bubble were related to Clinton policies. But what is certain is this... Bill Clinton never went on the wild spending spree that we're witnessing now. Not even close. If he had, that chart posted a bit earlier would look much, much different.

:cool:
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A couple things. Using the chart provided above(which I do not vouch for the accuracy of), the deficit was already trending down before the republican congress.

Secondly, alot of the reduction in military spending was a result of efforts by both Bush the elder and Clinton administrations to streamline and improve efficiency in the military. My favorite example is the base closure commission started by Bush the elder, and continued under Clinton, which did not reduce military readiness, and I think next year we reach the break even point, where the cost of the closings is surpassed by the savings from closing the bases.
 
repeter said:
So, you're essentially saying that Mr. Bush is willing to not do anythign to help the starving, dying people in New Orleans, because of a stupid rule? Sometimes, breaking rules is the right course, and in this case, Mr. Bush did not follow the right course. And I believe a state of emergency was called right after Katrina, so Mr. Bush still decided to not dedicate FEMA, even though it's obvious that they needed the help. What Bush should have done, was wait for the Supreme Court to interpret what a governor's call for help is, and then after submitting some forms, he could have then sent Fema to help. That's essentially what you want. Bureacracy and bull****.

And Remind Me, how am I wrong again???
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The starving people? Where do you think all that trash they were wallowing in came from? And it was Governor Blanco who denied the Red Cross permission to enter downtown New Orleans because she didn't want to attract more people going to the Superdome. Red Cross made that very clear because they didn't want people to think it was their fault. She wanted them to leave. The lies about Bush during Katrina are massive. Studies showed it was a hugely successful rescue effort.

Bush kept his promise and sent over $100 billion and has been thanked profusely by our mayor and our newspaper.
 
Dav said:
www.headybrew.net - Federal Budget Deficit Spending Chart
budget_deficit_or_surplus.gif


....
Click to expand...

Ohh! Looky.....either you're right and I'm wrong, or you're quoting a propaganda graph that doesn't bother to address the fact that Clinton's "balanced" budget improperly places revenues from FICA taxes intended for future expenses inton the "let's spend it now" column and pretend that future debts aren't being incurred.

Let's put it this way. Since I'm not wrong, the only question you have to ask is why aren't members of Congress and put in jail for pulling tricks with the numbers that would put any Enron exec in jail instantly.

They lied to you.

You don't have to believe the lie.

If you want to be free, you'll stop believing their lies.
 
Grateful Heart said:
I don't think many who look at the numbers will argue that the deficit wasn't reduced under Bill Clinton.
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Certainly the deficit was reduced under the Rapist President.

There was never a surplus.

Funny, though, the people babbling about this alleged "surplus" never ask the obvious question:

Why wasn't the money returned to the people it was taken from?


Grateful Heart said:
What's really important is to understand why it was reduced.
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You missed one of the biggest reasons.

The S&L Bailout, necessitated because of the shenanigans of the Democrats in the Senate, was paid off and finally returning money to the government.

Again, the Rapist President had nothing to do with this, either.
 
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