View Poll Results: How do You rate George W. Bush's Presidency?

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  • He's The Best President We've Ever Had

    5 4.55%
  • He Was One Of The Best

    7 6.36%
  • He Was Pretty Good

    8 7.27%
  • He's Alright

    9 8.18%
  • He Was Kind Of Bad

    14 12.73%
  • He Was One Of The Worst

    51 46.36%
  • He Was The Worst

    16 14.55%
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Thread: Bush's Presidency

  1. #161
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    Re: Bush's Presidency

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    Why are you so needing to avoid the subject? It was simple questions, and you still do everything in your power to avoid them.
    Haven't avoided the subject.

    If you've refused to notice, I've been discussing the subject.

    Now, are you still trying to claim The Rapsit presidency was in some way "better" than those others? Sure, you can say The Rapist was better than The Idiot. We all know that, some of us aren't even embarassed to say so.

    But, no, by objective measure, The Rapist was inferior in presidenting skills to The Great President, The Oath Breaking President, and even worse than The Bumbling Liberal President. Since The Messiah is eagerly seeking ways to become worse than The Worst President, aka Wilson, it's probable that The Rapist President will finally have a second president he can be compared favorably against who lived in his lifetime.

  2. #162
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    Re: Bush's Presidency

    Quote Originally Posted by Scarecrow Akhbar View Post
    Haven't avoided the subject.

    If you've refused to notice, I've been discussing the subject.

    Now, are you still trying to claim The Rapsit presidency was in some way "better" than those others? Sure, you can say The Rapist was better than The Idiot. We all know that, some of us aren't even embarassed to say so.

    But, no, by objective measure, The Rapist was inferior in presidenting skills to The Great President, The Oath Breaking President, and even worse than The Bumbling Liberal President. Since The Messiah is eagerly seeking ways to become worse than The Worst President, aka Wilson, it's probable that The Rapist President will finally have a second president he can be compared favorably against who lived in his lifetime.
    hmm..... appears conservatives can't name opposing party members, or shunned Republicans....
    Veni. Vidi. Vici.
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    The Only Thing to Fear is Fear Itself.
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    Re: Bush's Presidency

    Since you still seem afraid to answer, lets look at some numbers I found. Let's use debt a a purer metric. I will use the same source celticlord did to get his numbers.

    Carter: 9/30/77 698,840,000,000
    9/30/81 997,855,000,000

    About a 1/3 increase in 4 years.

    Reagan: 9/29/89 2,857,430,960,187

    That is almost triple, in 8 years.

    Bush the elder: 9/30/93 4,411,488,883,139

    Not quite double in 4 years.

    Clinton: 9/30/2001 5,807,463,412,200

    about a 1/3 increase in 8 years.

    Bush the younger: 9/30/2008 10,024,724,896,912

    Not quite double in 7 years. The 8th year should take it to over double.

    Spin it how you want, but under democratic presidents, debt has risen at a lower pace prior to Obama than under republican presidents. What Obama's numbers will look like, I am afraid to guess.

    The further truth is that it is not even close. Debt has risen dramatically faster under republicans than democrats.
    Last edited by Redress; 06-21-09 at 09:33 PM.

  4. #164
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    Re: Bush's Presidency

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    Debt has risen dramatically faster under republicans than democrats.
    I don't think that is an entirely fair assessment. For one thing, you have to look at who was in Congress too. Sure, Bill Clinton was a Democrat, but the Congress he presided over for 6 of his 8 years had Republicans in the majority. Reagan and Bush Sr. presided over a Democratic Congress.

    Of course, that's no excuse for Bush Jr., who was a Republican when Congress was Republican, nor is it for Carter. But under Carter our military was severely underfunded, and Bush had the whole War on Terror thing to attend to, although that doesn't entirely excuse him for F*ing the budget. Reagan won the Cold War at a high cost, and Clinton presided over a rare decade of peace in the U.S. Anyways, my point is that there are much more variables to take into account than the party of the president.

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    Re: Bush's Presidency

    Quote Originally Posted by Dav View Post
    I don't think that is an entirely fair assessment. For one thing, you have to look at who was in Congress too. Sure, Bill Clinton was a Democrat, but the Congress he presided over for 6 of his 8 years had Republicans in the majority. Reagan and Bush Sr. presided over a Democratic Congress.

    Of course, that's no excuse for Bush Jr., who was a Republican when Congress was Republican, nor is it for Carter. But under Carter our military was severely underfunded, and Bush had the whole War on Terror thing to attend to, although that doesn't entirely excuse him for F*ing the budget. Reagan won the Cold War at a high cost, and Clinton presided over a rare decade of peace in the U.S. Anyways, my point is that there are much more variables to take into account than the party of the president.
    In how many cases did the congress have a veto-proof majority of one party? Republicans like to talk like they are these big budget hawks, but the numbers indicate otherwise. When you point this out, they make tons and tons of excuses. "oh, but our spending was needed..." Mention the deficit under Clinton, and they bring up the fact that there was no real surplus, but forget that there was a reduction of deficit.

    Notice the pattern there?

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    Re: Bush's Presidency

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    In how many cases did the congress have a veto-proof majority of one party? Republicans like to talk like they are these big budget hawks, but the numbers indicate otherwise. When you point this out, they make tons and tons of excuses. "oh, but our spending was needed..." Mention the deficit under Clinton, and they bring up the fact that there was no real surplus, but forget that there was a reduction of deficit.

    Notice the pattern there?
    How does veto-proof majority matter when it comes to budget?

    I notice no pattern, just a mass of many variables, a single one of which is the party of the president.

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    Re: Bush's Presidency

    Quote Originally Posted by Dav View Post
    How does veto-proof majority matter when it comes to budget?

    I notice no pattern, just a mass of many variables, a single one of which is the party of the president.
    It means a president with sufficient determination could stop any budget passed by congress. They chose not to.

    Our right wing friends want to deny credit for any lessening of the deficit under Clinton, and deny blame for the increases in the deficit under republican presidents. They have a point in that it is not entirely the presidents fault, but the president is part of the equation, and should share credit/blame.

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    Re: Bush's Presidency

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    It means a president with sufficient determination could stop any budget passed by congress. They chose not to.
    The president will take what he can get... if he doesn't think Congress can compromise with a budget that looks more like what the president wants, I think he would just go ahead and approve it.

    Our right wing friends want to deny credit for any lessening of the deficit under Clinton, and deny blame for the increases in the deficit under republican presidents. They have a point in that it is not entirely the presidents fault, but the president is part of the equation, and should share credit/blame.
    I do agree, the President isn't completely blameless.

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    Re: Bush's Presidency

    It's discussions like these that reveal the dangers of hyper-partisans. The truth is, every president does some good, some bad. When measuring the overall job, we arrive at different measures for presidents based on how we weigh the successes and failures. I rate Clinton higher than Bush because the things Clinton did well are more important to me than the things Bush did well. I can accept that to another person with different priorities would come to a different conclusion. However, the hyper-partisans cannot accept that it is possible to see things in ways other than they see it.

  10. #170
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    Re: Bush's Presidency

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    It means a president with sufficient determination could stop any budget passed by congress. They chose not to.

    Our right wing friends want to deny credit for any lessening of the deficit under Clinton, and deny blame for the increases in the deficit under republican presidents. They have a point in that it is not entirely the presidents fault, but the president is part of the equation, and should share credit/blame.
    I will not pretend that debt did not increase under Republican Presidents, however, you also have to consider that inflation was also under way during most of these cases. In Reagan's case, he had planned to give the welfare program to the states and planned his budget accordingly. Obviously this did not happen, resulting in an increase. Bush Sr. had the gulf war and rising welfare and social program costs, Bush Jr. had the same. Clinton never balanced the budget, though he did manage to spend less by cutting the military. Just an FYI, to Congress "balanced" means the government is racking up less debt than it did last year.
    “Justitia suum cuique distribuit” Justice renders to every one his due

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