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Limits to Private Arsenals

Which should be legal for average citizens to own and use?


  • Total voters
    48
Anyone oversee or license your vocal chords ?

...and off the deep end he goes! Unless that gun came outa your mamma with you when you were born, this comment of yours becomes one of the most stupid that I have ever heard, literally, and that is saying something...
 
Reality says different, and so does the law.

Simply false. The Supreme Law of the Land says shall not be infringed.

Please point out where I am asking the government to forcibly deprive anyone of anything? Did you bother to read my argument at all?

Since when did licensing or over site to make sure a person is competent to own a very destructive device become depriving someone of something?

Perhaps you are too shortsighted to see it, but if I ignore your licensing crap, then what are you going to do ?

What if I just manufacture them myself ?
 
Rights are nothing more than man made laws about what they think should be rather than what is... The Constitution is no more valid than what I think, it is only right and I am only wrong by the governments threat of force in backing the Constitution were I to not obey it...

Well that is your view.

Mine is : Rights are the things that I am willing to kill over. My liberty, My property. My freedom of Association. My right to free speech, and religious liberty, my right to vote, and my right to keep and bear.

A right is a thing which you are simply not willing to live without.

Think for one second that we live out in the sticks, and I am your neighbor, and a bit tuffer. If I come over and try to enslave you, what will you do ? Will you call the cops ? What if I smash the phone ? What if I just keep beatin on you trying to make you my slave ? Will you mow my lawn ? Or fight back and kill me ?

What If I destroy your property ? And the replacement ? And the Home you mean to stay warm in over winter ? Will you fight over any of your rights Bodi ? Will you always hire it done or flee ?
 
Unless that gun came outa your mamma with you when you were born....

If that's all it takes....

I mean, my mom had some weird **** up inside there when I was born. She's a little nuts and thought that I should have some stuff to play with while I was waiting for the "big day" so she crammed pretty much everything she could find up there.

When they were counting "arms" after I was born they were already at 13 before they even got to the two attached to my shoulders!
 
If that's all it takes....

I mean, my mom had some weird **** up inside there when I was born. She's a little nuts and thought that I should have some stuff to play with while I was waiting for the "big day" so she crammed pretty much everything she could find up there.

When they were counting "arms" after I was born they were already at 13 before they even got to the two attached to my shoulders!

All I got was some razor blades and a couple of bottles of vicodin. :(
 
If that's all it takes....

I mean, my mom had some weird **** up inside there when I was born. She's a little nuts and thought that I should have some stuff to play with while I was waiting for the "big day" so she crammed pretty much everything she could find up there.

When they were counting "arms" after I was born they were already at 13 before they even got to the two attached to my shoulders!

This post has scarred me for life.
 
Simply false. The Supreme Law of the Land says shall not be infringed.

The BATF begs to differ...

http://www.atf.gov/forms/pdfs/f540013.pdf

Perhaps you are too shortsighted to see it, but if I ignore your licensing crap, then what are you going to do ?

I would do nothing (I have no idea how this became about me) because I am not the BATF. They on the other hand would probably arrest you.

What if I just manufacture them myself ?

Then you would be arrested if the government was notified.
 
If that's all it takes....

I mean, my mom had some weird **** up inside there when I was born. She's a little nuts and thought that I should have some stuff to play with while I was waiting for the "big day" so she crammed pretty much everything she could find up there.

When they were counting "arms" after I was born they were already at 13 before they even got to the two attached to my shoulders!
Ya know, you really are one sick puppy.....:respekt:
 
Why would I deny it?
Why woud lyou deny that your position is subjective and inconsistent?
Seems pretty obvious to me.
But -- glad we agree that your 'technology' argument is selective, and as such I will consider you to have conceded the point.

I don't know lets look closer...
There's no need to look closer -- you already conceded the point, that the 'technology' argument is unsound.

A reporter doing a news report is not even close to a person with a rocket launcher.
If a reporter's ability to libel, slander or give away sensitive information isnt a danger to society sufficient to justify their exclusion from the protection of the 1st amendment, why are these things banned?

Given that a reporter very mush has the ability to cause harm by doing these things, and then, by YOUR argument, should need a license.
How am I wrong?

Realistically this is absolutely correct.
You have already admitted that your argument to this effect is subjective and inconsistent. Move on.

Irrelivant as he is dead and we have no idea what his reaction would be.
This, of course, completely undermines your technology argument, based entirely on what you think they could or could not have thought of when they wrote the 2nd. Glad we can put that one to bed. Again.

What part about over site are you not understanding? It does not have to be a license, it could be requiring a class or something else.
Now you're moving the goalposts.
But, OK...
Does requiring a reporter to 'take a class' before the government says he can report the news violate the 1st amendment?
If so, then how does the same requirement applied to gun owers NOT violate the 2nd?

Fact is I have answered this question a few times and you don't like my answer as you have done your best to ignore it.
You have done everyghing BUT answer my question.
You simply want to apply a subjective and inconsistent standard to one right and not others. Your argument has no rational, consistent basis.

If this is the way all rights work...
What do you mean "if"?
If you don't understand that the right to do something ends at the point where it harms someone else, as described by any number ouf court decisions, you really arent capable of adding anything meaningful to this discussion.

why can't people own nuclear weapons?
Because the 2nd doesnt apply to nuclear weapons?

The "right to bear arms" does not cover "all weapons."
Read the question again:
What rights of yours do I violate by my simple possession of a weapon that is protected by the 2nd amendment?
Now, answer the question.
 
I define arms as what a common soldier carries with him into battle.
 
Why woud lyou deny that your position is subjective and inconsistent?

Please don't assume anything that stupid. You try unsuccessfully to take what I said out of context and then apply a meaning that is not even close.

"They are already licensed and as I said it is not considered unconstitutional. So your argument as far as I am concerned is irrelevant in a real world scenario." - Blackdog

Nice bob and weave, but no.

Seems pretty obvious to me.
But -- glad we agree that your 'technology' argument is selective, and as such I will consider you to have conceded the point.

It is selective, but this does not make it arbitrary as you would try and make it seem. Common sense again, try and apply it you will get farther.

There's no need to look closer -- you already conceded the point, that the 'technology' argument is unsound.

Not really, but if it makes you feel better thats cool.

If a reporter's ability to libel, slander or give away sensitive information isnt a danger to society sufficient to justify their exclusion from the protection of the 1st amendment, why are these things banned?

Just like arms conditions and laws exist to maintain the public safety even in reference to free speech. If you can't see this then you are willfully blind.

Given that a reporter very mush has the ability to cause harm by doing these things, and then, by YOUR argument, should need a license.
How am I wrong?

Because a news report does not represent the same danger as a person armed with a Hellfire missile system.

You have already admitted that your argument to this effect is subjective and inconsistent. Move on.

Again, subjective does not mean inconsistent. Do I need to post the dictionary definitions?

The US Government as a whole agrees with me by the way...

"A destructive device is a firearm or explosive device that, in the United States, is regulated by the National Firearms Act of 1934. Examples of destructive devices are grenades, and firearms with a bore over one half of an inch, including some semi-automatic shotguns. While current federal laws allow destructive devices, some states have banned them from transfer to civilians. In states where banned, only law enforcement officers and military personnel are allowed to possess them. - [ame=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Destructive_device]Destructive device - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/ame]

This, of course, completely undermines your technology argument, based entirely on what you think they could or could not have thought of when they wrote the 2nd. Glad we can put that one to bed. Again.

See above.

Now you're moving the goalposts.

Reading is fundamental.

This was my first responce to you...

"I also think it would be up to each state to license or in some way maintain reasonable over site on anything above firearms. - Blackdog

But, OK...
Does requiring a reporter to 'take a class' before the government says he can report the news violate the 1st amendment?
If so, then how does the same requirement applied to gun owers NOT violate the 2nd?

Why do you keep repeating this tired argument? Even the government does not agree and maintains reasonable restrictions on destructive devices. So you really have no argument. Reality trumps your wanting no over site on arms.

You have done everyghing BUT answer my question.
You simply want to apply a subjective and inconsistent standard to one right and not others. Your argument has no rational, consistent basis.

I have been completely consistent, and as I have shown through evidence rational. If this were not the case your argument as tired as it is would change.

What do you mean "if"?
If you don't understand that the right to do something ends at the point where it harms someone else, as described by any number ouf court decisions, you really arent capable of adding anything meaningful to this discussion.

This is not even worth responding to. :roll:

Read the question again:
What rights of yours do I violate by my simple possession of a weapon that is protected by the 2nd amendment?
Now, answer the question.

Not all weapons are covered under the 2nd amendment as I have shown. Otherwise anyone could own a claymore. Nukes are also arms, and as you have pointed out they are not covered as well.

So unless you are talking about a specific weapon, your point is irrelevant again under current US law.
 
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While I don't have a suitable solution, I think Voidwar's comparison is valid.

Requiring a license to carry is exactly like requiring a license to speak freely or practice religion.
 
Please don't assume anything that stupid.
Its the only valid conclusion from your response.

It is selective, but this does not make it arbitrary as you would try and make it seem.
Given that you refuse to apply your standard across the board, you havent show it to be anything but.

Just like arms conditions and laws exist to maintain the public safety even in reference to free speech. If you can't see this then you are willfully blind.
Glad to see that you agree with me.

Because a news report does not represent the same danger as a person armed with a Hellfire missile system.
You're right -- a reporter represents a LARGER danger, given that he has the ability to comprimise the national security of the United States.

According to YOUR argument, there's no reason to NOT license reporters.
But, because your standard is subjective, arbitrary, inconsistent and unreasoned, you will refuse to agree.

See above.
Whats there to see?
You completely undermined your own argument with your 'no way to know' comment, as your argument is based on the idea that 'if the founders would have know about AK47s, they would have....".

Why do you keep repeating this tired argument?
Because it illustrates, in a clear, concise and unmistakeable way, the subjectivity, arbitrary and incoinsistent manner in which you apply your argument, to the point of illustrating its invalidity.

I have been completely consistent, and as I have shown through evidence rational. If this were not the case your argument as tired as it is would change.
Not even close -- you apply your standard where and when you want, in an aribitrary and unreasoned manner.

This is not even worth responding to. :roll:
Truth hurts, eh?

Not all weapons are covered under the 2nd amendment as I have shown.
And that is irrelevant to my question.
As you said -- reading is fundamental ; try actually reading my question:

What rights of yours do I violate by my simple possession of a weapon that is protected by the 2nd amendment?

If you cannot answer that question, you cannot show cause for requring a license to possess those weapons.
 
The BATF begs to differ...

Who outranks who , the ATF or the Constitution ?

They on the other hand would probably arrest you.

Ahh, so force will be required, but you personally won't dirty your hands , you will just vote to take my guns, and vote to hire thugs and send them ?

Then you would be arrested if the government was notified.

And If I kill these men and come for who sent them ?
 
Who outranks who , the ATF or the Constitution ?

realisticly or in fantasy land.

Ahh, so force will be required, but you personally won't dirty your hands , you will just vote to take my guns, and vote to hire thugs and send them ?

Who said anything about guns? I am talking about large ordinance? I have no problems small arms of any type.

And If I kill these men and come for who sent them ?

Ruby Ridge comes to mind.
 
What rights of yours do I violate by my simple possession of a weapon that is protected by the 2nd amendment?

If you cannot answer that question, you cannot show cause for requring a license to possess those weapons.

I think you misunderstood. I have no problem with small arms not being licensed. In my original post I was talking about anything above and beyond your average weapon. Why do you think I keep using the terms "mines, missiles and tanks."

I should have stated anything below that and above machine guns. That is my fault.
 
Are we going to stamp serial numbers onto bibles now? They might be used to oppress a minority you know :roll:
 
Are we going to stamp serial numbers onto bibles now? They might be used to oppress a minority you know :roll:

So you think it would be OK for some Joe blow who knows nothing about ordinance to buy a mine, missile system or something equally ridicules?
 
So you think it would be OK for some Joe blow who knows nothing about ordinance to buy a mine, missile system or something equally ridicules?

Scroll up to the poll results and click on any number to the right.

You will then see the names of everyone who voted next to the options they voted for.

Do you see what I voted for?
 
Scroll up to the poll results and click on any number to the right.

You will then see the names of everyone who voted next to the options they voted for.

Do you see what I voted for?

That is why I asked for clarification. I just could not see you agreeing with that.
 
So you think it would be OK for some Joe blow who knows nothing about ordinance to buy a mine, missile system or something equally ridicules?

On his own property, that is his liberty.

Here's what I think is worse:

Jackbooted thugs attacking him to disarm him.
 
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