View Poll Results: Which should be legal for average citizens to own and use?

Voters
60. You may not vote on this poll
  • VX

    10 16.67%
  • Aersol Ebola

    9 15.00%
  • Nuclear Weapons

    6 10.00%
  • Jet Fighters with full munitions

    20 33.33%
  • Claymores and Mines

    29 48.33%
  • Anti-Armor Missiles

    27 45.00%
  • Machine Guns

    40 66.67%
  • Handguns

    57 95.00%
  • Automatic Rifles

    49 81.67%
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Thread: Limits to Private Arsenals

  1. #21
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    Re: Limits to Private Arsenals

    Quote Originally Posted by Orius View Post
    I would like to see someone actually try to acquire and brandish the higher level weaponry in that list and see how the government reacts. You would never be allowed to hold onto such technology as a civilian because of the threat to public safety.

    This argument centers around idealism but not reality. In reality, no one could afford half of that stuff, and if they could, they more than likely would not be able to keep it.

    I'm a strong believer in implied powers and reinterpretation of the constitution in accordance with modern needs, but when it comes to this, I sincerely don't believe that the founders intended for it to go to such a level.

    I'll play devil's advocate though and say that they probably intended for the Second Amendment to be a means for the civilian population to have equal capability with the government. On those terms, anyone who can afford such technology should be allowed to possess it. Back in the day, it was about rifles; today, it's about much bigger guns.
    Except for the top three of the list you can find and get everything else on that list.

  2. #22
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    Re: Limits to Private Arsenals

    Quote Originally Posted by WI Crippler View Post
    There are costs, beyond the sticker price, of operating something like an aircraft. Maintenance, fuel, etc.....Do you have access to a supply system, to order new parts from, when a part goes bad? Because parts are going to go bad. Do you have the time of day, to do all the checks and inspections necessary to insure safe flight all by yourself? And then, are you going to have the skill and ability to fly the thing effectively in the first place?

    Besides, there are some critical parts of a aircraft for weapons delivery, that are classified secret or top secret. Where are you going to get those parts? Rare is the person that could fathom just building one part of a weapons delivery system, much less having the knowledge to integrate all of them. Its way more complex than some simple electronics class.

    In essence, I am not ever going to be worried about somebody buying a fighter aircraft, even if it were legal to own one.
    To answer your question Yes to all of them.

    Parts for all former USSR based aircraft are very easy to come by hell the Mig21 is the longest produce Fighter aircraft every right now you can go to Romania and get brand new wings for $200,000.

    As for working on them they aren't that hard to work on even Western Fighter are quite easy and don't forget there are allot of former Mechs out there.

    As for Weapon System's the only one's that I know that are still Classified are the F-22 most Weapon System are left over from mid 60s tech that have been updated. Every scene the inside of the latest B-52 Glass Cockpit upgrade nothing has change since they came out of Boeing.

  3. #23
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    Re: Limits to Private Arsenals

    All of them with perhaps nukes and bio being the exception. I dont think allowing anyone to distroy potentialy millions of people acceptible.

    I believe the most important reason for the 2A was to fight government tyranny. What good does the 2A do if we allow the government to ban high power weapons while they hold such weapons?

  4. #24
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    Re: Limits to Private Arsenals

    Quote Originally Posted by celticlord View Post
    VX and aerosol ebola being chemical and biological in nature, are not "arms" and thus are not subject to the protections of the Second Amendment.
    Under what definition?
    arm - Definition from the Merriam-Webster Online Dictionary[3]
    1 a: a means (as a weapon) of offense or defense

    Any distinction you try to make is going to be flimsy semantics when the subject the OP is bringing up is the matter of 'arms' in the sense of weapons of warfare, as many interpret the second amendment to mean.

    Chemical and biological weapons of warfare are just that... weapons of warfare. The do have things that distinguish them from other weapons, but those things do not make them into not weapons.

    Essentially the OP is asking the question "Assuming the 2nd amendment was meant to preserve the freedom of citizens against the tyranny of governments, including their own, which modern weapons should be prohibited for individual ownership, if any?"

    By implication, the question hints that assuming such an interpretation of the 2nd will devolve into an untenable situation, thus forcing a rethinking as to either 1) the meaning of the 2nd or 2) whether the 2nd is appropriate to our modern day.

    It is a good question to be asking living document, organic jurisprudence advocates, since our Constitution stated this right (along with several others) as principles, rather than legalistically designed directives.

    The originalists and strict constructionists, for consistency's sake, should probably consider it permissible to ban anything that wasn't around during the time of the writing. But, they are of course not consistent.

    But, those who believe that the document was designed to adapt to the times in which it found itself should interpret the 2nd to protect whatever will preserve the original principles it was designed to. That being, the principle that people ought to retain the means to fight off tyranny.

    So, we find ourselves in the odd situation where the originalists are making living document arguments to preserve the principles behind the 2nd whiles sticking to originalist arguments to destroy all the rest of our rights... and living document advocates making up toothless principles(truly being activists) to destroy the second while ardently preserving the principles that protect the rest of our rights.

    I love the 2nd amendment because, for whatever reason, it makes fools out of both sides One side adopts the jurisprudence of the other, while the other adopts the loosey goosey jurisprudence they are always accused of.




    I like Ideological Selectivism, closely related to Cherrypickandchoosism, both of which are umbrella jurisprudences where one picks and applies whatever jurisprudence will get the outcome that best fits one's ideology. Alito expressed it during his confirmation hearings, but nobody seemed to notice, really. It seems that this jurisprudence is the one that is flexible enough to include all the present jurisprudence, being offered by both the right and left on our modern Supreme Court. Without ever having realized it, all of our Justices have this jurisprudence as their common ground.

    Sigh.

    In any case, you are ruining his (the OP poster's) game with your own. stop it.

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    Re: Limits to Private Arsenals

    Quote Originally Posted by Scorpion89 View Post
    To answer your question Yes to all of them.

    Parts for all former USSR based aircraft are very easy to come by hell the Mig21 is the longest produce Fighter aircraft every right now you can go to Romania and get brand new wings for $200,000.
    OK now I know you're bull****ting because about the only commodity you can get from Romania is a cheap baby from one of their orphanages. Because orphans are about the only thing Romania produces. That's because they have to feed Dracula somehow.

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    Re: Limits to Private Arsenals

    Quote Originally Posted by Scorpion89 View Post
    To answer your question Yes to all of them.

    Parts for all former USSR based aircraft are very easy to come by hell the Mig21 is the longest produce Fighter aircraft every right now you can go to Romania and get brand new wings for $200,000.

    As for working on them they aren't that hard to work on even Western Fighter are quite easy and don't forget there are allot of former Mechs out there.

    As for Weapon System's the only one's that I know that are still Classified are the F-22 most Weapon System are left over from mid 60s tech that have been updated. Every scene the inside of the latest B-52 Glass Cockpit upgrade nothing has change since they came out of Boeing.
    Yeah, I was an avionics tech. So I know for a fact that there are classified materials within our aircraft. Now, the weapons we use might not be classified, but there is a completely different chain in the supply system, as well as extra layers of tracking that go into the process of removing and replacing of a sensitive part. Nobody is getting electronic countermeausures equipment.
    "Loyalty only matters when there's a hundred reasons not to be-" Gen. Mattis

  7. #27
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    Re: Limits to Private Arsenals

    Quote Originally Posted by jallman View Post
    OK now I know you're bull****ting because about the only commodity you can get from Romania is a cheap baby from one of their orphanages. Because orphans are about the only thing Romania produces. That's because they have to feed Dracula somehow.
    Really would you like me to name you the three Aircraft factorys for you and what each one does.

    It is a well know fact that the Romania's build the best of the Mig21 serious.

  8. #28
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    Re: Limits to Private Arsenals

    Quote Originally Posted by WI Crippler View Post
    Yeah, I was an avionics tech. So I know for a fact that there are classified materials within our aircraft. Now, the weapons we use might not be classified, but there is a completely different chain in the supply system, as well as extra layers of tracking that go into the process of removing and replacing of a sensitive part. Nobody is getting electronic countermeausures equipment.
    It depends on what era of ECM you are talking about the Collins foundation has the ECM in it mind you it is from 1963 and the three mig25s that the guys in Reno have in have ECM from the mid 70s. But your correct you will not get any ECM stuff from 1979-Present on US build Aircraft

  9. #29
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    Re: Limits to Private Arsenals

    Quote Originally Posted by WI Crippler View Post
    Yeah, I was an avionics tech. So I know for a fact that there are classified materials within our aircraft. Now, the weapons we use might not be classified, but there is a completely different chain in the supply system, as well as extra layers of tracking that go into the process of removing and replacing of a sensitive part. Nobody is getting electronic countermeausures equipment.
    The ALR in my barn is illegal?

    I don't think Scorpian understands how quickly military avionics goes bad, and how impossible it would be to keep up with keeping such a jet in parts would be.

    Note, before the secret service breaks down my door: The first sentence was a joke, and a lame one at that.

  10. #30
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    Re: Limits to Private Arsenals

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    The ALR in my barn is illegal?

    I don't think Scorpian understands how quickly military avionics goes bad, and how impossible it would be to keep up with keeping such a jet in parts would be.

    Note, before the secret service breaks down my door: The first sentence was a joke, and a lame one at that.
    Actually Redress I do know how quickly Military Avionics go South. As for parts as I said you can get pretty much anything for Soviet block Airframe's and hell most of the Western Build stuff say up to 1978.

    I know a guy who is rebuilding an A-6B and yes he has all of the Avionics including the Norden AN/APQ-148,AN/ASN-92 inertial navigation system and CAINS (Carrier Aircraft Intertial Navigation System) he is rebuilding it to a Iron Hand Bird.

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