View Poll Results: Is Islam incompatible with religion?

Voters
48. You may not vote on this poll
  • No, there are other factors

    22 45.83%
  • Yes, because there is no separation between church & state over there

    10 20.83%
  • Yes, because the Koran is their only law, and it is against democracy

    12 25.00%
  • Yes, because it's "foreign" to their culture, democracy is a Western concept

    4 8.33%
  • other

    6 12.50%
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Thread: Is Islam incompatible with democracy?

  1. #21
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    Re: Is Islam incompatible with democracy?

    Quote Originally Posted by kaya'08 View Post
    The idea of that would be nice. Sometimes we need religion to bring people to more moral, traditional values. But im yet to see this work in any nation.
    Without shared beliefs systems no society can function, particularly a democratic one which is so atomistic anyway.
    "It is written in the eternal constitution that men of intemperate minds cannot be free. Their passions forge their fetters." - Edmund Burke

  2. #22
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    Re: Is Islam incompatible with democracy?

    I voted other ebcause legitimately democratic mvoements in the middle east would create VERY differant political systems than those of the west.

    Western, capitalist democracy - may be incompatable with Islam.
    But democratic decision making is not.

    I think many people would have trouble viewing foreign democracy as democratic, because people take a very narrow and culturally biased view of what democracy means.

    The conflation of capitalism with democracy is but one example of this.
    The seperation of church and state is another.
    So are the way our parliaments work. And presidents/primeministers.
    And political parties as we know them.

    for but a few examples of things that we view as inherant to democracy, but maya ctualy be contradictory in areas where people hold differant political outlooks.
    Last edited by Real Talk; 06-08-09 at 10:04 PM.

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    Re: Is Islam incompatible with democracy?

    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    Without shared beliefs systems no society can function, particularly a democratic one which is so atomistic anyway.
    Fear of the other is the usual belief system that binds.

  4. #24
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    Re: Is Islam incompatible with democracy?

    Huntington had a famous grad student, Francis Fukuyama who wrote a counter-argument to Clash of Civilizations, called The End of History and the Last Man. In his book, Fukuyama asserts that the debate over the best form of government has ended and that liberal democracy is the only viable form of government with capitalism as its economic principle. He further argues that with time, even the Islamic nations will be brought into the fold and that nations like Turkey, Malaysia and even future Iraq will be the leaders in ushering in democracy in the Middle East.

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    Re: Is Islam incompatible with democracy?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ethereal View Post
    1) No, not really. What percentage of Muslim countries treat their women equally, or at least decently?

    2) The PC apologetics for Islamic governance perplexes me to no end. I hear attack after attack on Christian influence in American governance (which is relatively minimal), but I hear nary a peep from the same crowd when we discuss Islamic governance.
    1) What if they voted on it, and decided this was best?

    2) we are tlaking about DEMOCRACY. How WE as OUTSIDERS feel about the seperation of church and state in their country IS NOT OUR PLACE TO DECIDE IF YOU BELIEVE IN DEMOCRACY.

  6. #26
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    Re: Is Islam incompatible with democracy?

    Quote Originally Posted by Real Talk View Post
    Fear of the other is the usual belief system that binds.
    Doubtful. In atomised societies it is the state that is usually all that is left, hence De Tocqueville commented on the unlikely-hood of a secular democracy not becoming a despotism.
    "It is written in the eternal constitution that men of intemperate minds cannot be free. Their passions forge their fetters." - Edmund Burke

  7. #27
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    Re: Is Islam incompatible with democracy?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ethereal View Post
    One time, in Iraq, I saw a man walking down the street, relaxed and care-free, his women trudging woefully behind him - each with thirty pound sacs of grain pressing down on their frail backs. It was over a hundred and ten degrees Fahrenheit and their burqas looked stiflingly hot in the afternoon sun.

    I simply could not reconcile this site in my mind. The idea of forcing women, some of them elderly, to assume the entire burden of a family's manual labor AND the children's upbringing is unconscionable to me. What kind of a "man" is capable of such a thing? This is the status quo in many Islamic countries and I find that disturbing. That’s probably why I’m so attracted to Arabic/Persian women; they’re in dire need of a real man…
    This is between them. Ur opinion of it has NOTHING to do with democracy.
    Its possible for a democracy to mistreat women.
    Hell, muslims argue we mistreat women.

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    Re: Is Islam incompatible with democracy?

    Quote Originally Posted by tlmorg02 View Post
    Huntington had a famous grad student, Francis Fukuyama who wrote a counter-argument to Clash of Civilizations, called The End of History and the Last Man. In his book, Fukuyama asserts that the debate over the best form of government has ended and that liberal democracy is the only viable form of government with capitalism as its economic principle. He further argues that with time, even the Islamic nations will be brought into the fold and that nations like Turkey, Malaysia and even future Iraq will be the leaders in ushering in democracy in the Middle East.
    And theyre both discredited morons no one with a clue takes seriously.

    I ripped the clash of civilisations thesis to bits as a 19 year old, and got an a+ from a republican lecturer. Fukyama's theory is even more idiotic.
    Last edited by Real Talk; 06-08-09 at 10:13 PM.

  9. #29
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    Re: Is Islam incompatible with democracy?

    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    Doubtful. In atomised societies it is the state that is usually all that is left, hence De Tocqueville commented on the unlikely-hood of a secular democracy not becoming a despotism.
    Didn't De Tocqueville believe that a large federal government would ultimately lead to the loss of liberty? From my memory of his work I believe that he, like Jefferson, believed that small, community democracies were more suitable for the preservation of Democracy. As the states have been minimized for the power of the Federal, Tocqueville's vision has been fulfilled, no?

  10. #30
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    Re: Is Islam incompatible with democracy?

    Quote Originally Posted by Real Talk View Post
    And theyre both discredited morons no one with a clue takes seriously.

    I ripped the clash of civilisations thesis to bits as a 19 year old, and got an a+ from a republican lecturer. Fukyama's theory is even more idiotic.
    Of all of my research during grad school, my favorite book on the subject is The Dynamics of Global Dominance, by David Abernethey. By far his thesis on the movement of power and dominance, as well as the potential for ascension to power is the best.

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