View Poll Results: Is Islam incompatible with religion?

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  • No, there are other factors

    22 45.83%
  • Yes, because there is no separation between church & state over there

    10 20.83%
  • Yes, because the Koran is their only law, and it is against democracy

    12 25.00%
  • Yes, because it's "foreign" to their culture, democracy is a Western concept

    4 8.33%
  • other

    6 12.50%
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Thread: Is Islam incompatible with democracy?

  1. #11
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    Re: Is Islam incompatible with democracy?

    Quote Originally Posted by Orius View Post
    Afghanistan and Iraq are examples of nations that were both democracies until their governments suffered coups sponsored by our friends in the West.
    Um no not at all.

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    Re: Is Islam incompatible with democracy?

    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Ferris View Post
    Iran is antithetical to democracy, their system is theocratic at its core and the elections are a farce because it is the theocrats who hold the true power within that country not the elected officials.
    Iran is certainly not Sweden in this regard, but neither is it North Korea. It's most a dictatorship, but it certainly isn't totalitarian. Iran's elected leaders are not the most powerful people in Iran, but they do hold some real power over domestic affairs. That's a great deal more representative than many Sunni states.

    You also have the examples of Lebanon and Iraq, which are even closer to representative democracy than is Iran.
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    Re: Is Islam incompatible with democracy?

    Is Islam compatible with democracy?
    No, not really. What percentage of Muslim countries treat their women equally, or at least decently? The PC apologetics for Islamic governance perplexes me to no end. I hear attack after attack on Christian influence in American governance (which is relatively minimal), but I hear nary a peep from the same crowd when we discuss Islamic governance.

    I, for one, find religion, in general, to be at odds with democracy, but that's simply because I'm a westerner and that's just how we view government; I wouldn't presume to impose my views of governance on other countries but that doesn't mean I have to abstain from criticizing them. Millions of Muslim women are being overtly oppressed by Islamic regimes the world over, so, no, Islam does not seem to be compatible with democracy.

    A story:

    One time, in Iraq, I saw a man walking down the street, relaxed and care-free, his women trudging woefully behind him - each with thirty pound sacs of grain pressing down on their frail backs. It was over a hundred and ten degrees Fahrenheit and their burqas looked stiflingly hot in the afternoon sun.

    I simply could not reconcile this site in my mind. The idea of forcing women, some of them elderly, to assume the entire burden of a family's manual labor AND the children's upbringing is unconscionable to me. What kind of a "man" is capable of such a thing? This is the status quo in many Islamic countries and I find that disturbing. That’s probably why I’m so attracted to Arabic/Persian women; they’re in dire need of a real man…
    Last edited by Ethereal; 06-08-09 at 03:29 AM. Reason: syntax error

  4. #14
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    Re: Is Islam incompatible with democracy?

    It is a hard question. It needs to be resolved what democracy actually means; personally I don't consider most modern western states that democratic.

    I think it be compatible in some forms with some forms of democracy. It leads on of course to other questions like its compatibility with liberty and democracy's own desirability, particularly in different forms.
    Last edited by Wessexman; 06-08-09 at 03:30 AM.
    "It is written in the eternal constitution that men of intemperate minds cannot be free. Their passions forge their fetters." - Edmund Burke

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    Re: Is Islam incompatible with democracy?

    Quote Originally Posted by bub View Post
    According to Samuel Huntington, Islam is incompatible with religion because
    - there is no separation with church & state in these countries
    - democracy is not present in their culture
    - the Koran itself is contrary to democracy
    ...

    Do you think he's right or wrong? Why?
    This is where people get it wrong. NO religion is compatible with democracy. Give me an instance where Christianity has ever been compatible with democracy without seperation of church and state. You could say Rome was a christian empire that practised democracy, but there idea of democracy wouldnt be good enough to todays European standards. Unless we practise secularism, there isnt a chance in hell we could bring the two together successfully, with conflicting ideas of both ideaologies. Islam, as a religion, is not compatible with Democracy, as is the rest of them, but like every state, muslim or otherwise, can allow Democracy to thrive through secularism. Turkey is a perfect example of this, or Albania, or Macedonia, Bosnia etc. In other words, secularism is the key for the Arabs in the ME if they truly want peace.
    "If religious instruction were not allowed until the child had attained the age of reason, we would be living in quite a different world" - Christopher Hitchens
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    Re: Is Islam incompatible with democracy?

    Quote Originally Posted by kaya'08 View Post
    This is where people get it wrong. NO religion is compatible with democracy. Give me an instance where Christianity has ever been compatible with democracy without seperation of church and state. You could say Rome was a christian empire that practised democracy, but there idea of democracy wouldnt be good enough to todays European standards. Unless we practise secularism, there isnt a chance in hell we could bring the two together successfully, with conflicting ideas of both ideaologies. Islam, as a religion, is not compatible with Democracy, as is the rest of them, but like every state, muslim or otherwise, can allow Democracy to thrive through secularism. Turkey is a perfect example of this, or Albania, or Macedonia, Bosnia etc. In other words, secularism is the key for the Arabs in the ME if they truly want peace.
    Obviously a measure of separation of church and state is needed for democracy but I don't think it need be total. The CoE occupies a happy medium for instance.
    "It is written in the eternal constitution that men of intemperate minds cannot be free. Their passions forge their fetters." - Edmund Burke

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    Re: Is Islam incompatible with democracy?

    Islam, as it is currently, is incompatible with democracy. Mainly because religion is the law in most of the Muslim countries.
    Once they'd become secular, like turkey for example, they shouldn't have any problem with becoming a democracy.
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    Re: Is Islam incompatible with democracy?

    Islam is as compatiable as any other religion.
    The problem occurs when Islam is used as a political force for law.
    A measure of church/state seperation needs to occur. Have a political system with a state religion if need be like UK but ensure that politics doesn't come from a religion.
    In that sense, secularism is the best way for Muslims to go.


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    Re: Is Islam incompatible with democracy?

    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    Obviously a measure of separation of church and state is needed for democracy but I don't think it need be total. The CoE occupies a happy medium for instance.
    The idea of that would be nice. Sometimes we need religion to bring people to more moral, traditional values. But im yet to see this work in any nation.
    "If religious instruction were not allowed until the child had attained the age of reason, we would be living in quite a different world" - Christopher Hitchens
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    Re: Is Islam incompatible with democracy?

    Quote Originally Posted by bub View Post
    According to Samuel Huntington, Islam is incompatible with religion because
    - there is no separation with church & state in these countries
    - democracy is not present in their culture
    - the Koran itself is contrary to democracy
    ...

    Do you think he's right or wrong? Why?
    Any religion can be compatible with democracy so long as they don't infuse their religion into government. Theocracy is incompatible with democracy.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

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