View Poll Results: Hiroshima Bombing vs. Torture

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  • Hiroshima was worse

    14 50.00%
  • Torture is worse

    4 14.29%
  • Hiroshima was neseccary

    22 78.57%
  • Torture was neseccary

    8 28.57%
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Thread: Hiroshima Bombing vs. Torture

  1. #71
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    Re: Hiroshima Bombing vs. Torture

    Quote Originally Posted by Khayembii Communique View Post
    That's funny; many here that are arguing against my position basically admit that Japan would have surrendered, albeit not unconditionally, when they backtrack to the argument that the bombs were justified because they weren't willing to unconditionally surrender.
    Making unsubstantiated speculative claims based on hindsight and imaginative abilities is silly. Facts, referenced documents, and quotes give arguments persuasive power. Apparently this is forgotten when the bombing of Japan is discussed.

    Then just nuke the entire island.
    with the production of 2 nukes per month and the possibility of a stalemate it may have come to that.
    If you believe in the Supernatural then you can become a millionaire!

    Questioning or criticizing another's core beliefs is inadvertently perceived as offensive and rude.

  2. #72
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    Re: Hiroshima Bombing vs. Torture

    Quote Originally Posted by Scarecrow Akhbar View Post
    Not until you agree that it's also necessary.
    That's beside the point that we can still consider it heinous. Far too many people enjoy the idea of war as a solution to problems. War is a sad reality that humans have not learned to move past.

    Quote Originally Posted by Scarecrow Akhbar View Post
    The American colonists didn't start a revolution because it was Tuesday, you know, the independence of the colonies from the tyrants in London became imperative.
    I don't think the glorified reasons of those days are at all comparable to the modern frontier. Most of today's wars are over the spread of globalization and regionalization. Democratic nations have, largely, betrayed the values they originally fought for.

    Quote Originally Posted by Scarecrow Akhbar View Post
    It was no big deal. Where's the crying over the 200,000 LeMay killed with incedaries in one night?
    Why do I have to be "crying" over that in order for my point to have validity? I'm not going to site every major incident in history to satisfy your ego.

    Quote Originally Posted by Scarecrow Akhbar View Post
    Dead is dead, how the body gets killed isn't important, so get over it already.
    The body doesn't have to be killed to die, and it's important to a lot of people. Just because life has no value to you does not give you the right to play god.

  3. #73
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    Re: Hiroshima Bombing vs. Torture

    Quote Originally Posted by Khayembii Communique View Post
    So that's why they were willing to surrender?
    They weren't willing to surrender until after Nagasaki visited the stratosphere for a short vacation.

  4. #74
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    Re: Hiroshima Bombing vs. Torture

    Quote Originally Posted by Orius View Post
    That's beside the point that we can still consider it heinous. Far too many people enjoy the idea of war as a solution to problems. War is a sad reality that humans have not learned to move past.
    War is what happens when two or more sides disagree over something that neither can do without. This will -always- exist, so long as there are people.

  5. #75
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    Re: Hiroshima Bombing vs. Torture

    Quote Originally Posted by Orius View Post
    The body doesn't have to be killed to die,
    Unless you intended to discuss changing someone's skin color through a dyeing process and you just misspelled the word, yes, the body has to be killed for someone to die.

    Quote Originally Posted by Orius View Post
    and it's important to a lot of people. Just because life has no value to you does not give you the right to play god.
    I am god, I don't play god.

    Refute that.

    Meanwhile, dead is dead, more people were killed by conventional weapons in that war than were nuked.
    Last edited by Scarecrow Akhbar; 06-05-09 at 03:21 PM.

  6. #76
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    Re: Hiroshima Bombing vs. Torture

    Quote Originally Posted by Khayembii Communique View Post
    Which also wouldn't have been necessary had negotiations been opened up.
    Because negotiations solve everything? That's some hefty idealism you're toting around don't you think?

    Your assumption: negotiation = less conflict. The flaw in this argument can be examined by the analogy to golf. That is, golf is easy because one simply has to put a ball in a circular hole. What could possibly be so difficult about that? Therefore, golf is an easy sport. Likewise, you simply present "negotiations" as the turnkey to all conflict and carelessly move on despite the many problems and issues inherent in such a proposition.

    So that's why they were willing to surrender?
    when multi quoting please specify the poster you are responding to. The above is NOT my post.
    Last edited by scourge99; 06-05-09 at 03:23 PM.
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    Questioning or criticizing another's core beliefs is inadvertently perceived as offensive and rude.

  7. #77
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    Re: Hiroshima Bombing vs. Torture

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    War is what happens when two or more sides disagree over something that neither can do without. This will -always- exist, so long as there are people.
    Oh? What products or resource was the United States lacking that drove it to war with Japan?

    Answer: None.

    It takes two sides to fight a war, only one side to start it.

    Never forget Japan started it.

    Never forget Islam started it.

  8. #78
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    Re: Hiroshima Bombing vs. Torture

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    War is what happens when two or more sides disagree over something that neither can do without. This will -always- exist, so long as there are people.
    I can agree with this up to an extent. I don't think there will always be wars for the simple reason that most wars are, at the end of the day, fought over resources: availability to produce food, water, and living space is at the core of most battles. In the future, energy technologies will eliminate such material inequities. With energy surpluses, anything can be made. (Fusion reaction is one example that will become a reality in the next 50 years.) Until then, wars will be on a basis of needs.

    As for wars over social values, like religion... those will continue to happen, but with higher energy economy comes higher access to education for all. As our technology allows for higher social development and removes excuses for war, wars will be more rare... and the powerful people who continue to try and wage them for selfish reasons will become more and more transparent.

    That's my theory anyway. In any case, you cannot say with concrete certainty that wars will always be a reality. I think humans have the capacity now to evolve past that.

  9. #79
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    Re: Hiroshima Bombing vs. Torture

    Quote Originally Posted by Scarecrow Akhbar View Post
    Unless you intended to discuss changing someone's skin color through a dyeing process and you just misspelled the word, yes, the body has to be killed for someone to die.
    The cessation of life is the noun death. To die is the verb.

    What I mean is... the body doesn't have to be killed by another human being in order to die. So yeah, how you die actually does make a difference.

    Quote Originally Posted by Scarecrow Akhbar View Post
    I am god, I don't play god.

    Refute that.
    Simple. God isn't a moron.

    Quote Originally Posted by Scarecrow Akhbar View Post
    Meanwhile, dead is dead, more people were killed by conventional weapons in that war than were nuked.
    Conventional war is also heinous. You're trying to refute a point that I never even made.

  10. #80
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    Re: Hiroshima Bombing vs. Torture

    Quote Originally Posted by Scarecrow Akhbar View Post
    Oh? What products or resource was the United States lacking that drove it to war with Japan?
    Answer: None.
    The 'irreconcilable difference' concept goes further than conflict over available resouces -- Israel fights for her survival against those that wish to see her destroyed; in that case, the disagreement is based on the right of Israel to exist, with the two sides having irreconciably opposing views.

    That said...
    The Nips attacked us so they might guarantee their access to industrial resources, resources that we denied them because of their Imperialism in China. For them, the conflict -was- about resources.

    For us? No so much -- we fought because we were attacked, and becaise the Imperial expansion of Japan theatened the free world (such as it was in the region).
    Last edited by Goobieman; 06-05-09 at 03:17 PM.

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