View Poll Results: Hiroshima Bombing vs. Torture

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  • Hiroshima was worse

    14 50.00%
  • Torture is worse

    4 14.29%
  • Hiroshima was neseccary

    22 78.57%
  • Torture was neseccary

    8 28.57%
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Thread: Hiroshima Bombing vs. Torture

  1. #51
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    Re: Hiroshima Bombing vs. Torture

    Quote Originally Posted by Inferno View Post
    They were willing to surrender they were not willing to surrender on our terms. They wanted it their way. So the bombs were BS>

    Let be know how you feel about torture when they are doing it to our troops. Tell me then the difference between torture and torture lite.

    Hello?

    Can you spell "N I C K B E R G"? Yes? Google it.

    Duh.

    So he wasn't a sojer. Does that matter? Those animals aren't human, so torture the crap out of them just for general principles.

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    Re: Hiroshima Bombing vs. Torture

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    That they didnt surrender is obviously -our- fault, as we demanded an unconditional surrender.

    Had -we- not been so uncomprimising, the war would have been over and the bombs not been dropped.
    Do you know if The Messiah has apologized to Japan for shooting Zeros at Pearl Harbor yet?

  3. #53
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    Re: Hiroshima Bombing vs. Torture

    Quote Originally Posted by Scarecrow Akhbar View Post
    Do you know if The Messiah has apologized to Japan for shooting Zeros at Pearl Harbor yet?
    Give him time -- first he has to aplogize to the British for the Revolution.

  4. #54
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    Re: Hiroshima Bombing vs. Torture

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    No... it was a means to affect the defeat of the enemy.

    In war, especially in a total war, you use every means available to force the other side to surrender as quickly as possible -- anything less means the war goes on longer than necessary, and more people die.

    To NOT use the bombs, chosing instead to allow thw war to go on longer than necessary, resulting in the deaths of more Americans -and- Japanese, would have been irresponsible.
    They were already defeated. We just had to drop the bomb. They would have quit.
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    Re: Hiroshima Bombing vs. Torture

    Quote Originally Posted by Inferno View Post
    They were already defeated. We just had to drop the bomb. They would have quit.

    Isn't that what happened?

  6. #56
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    Re: Hiroshima Bombing vs. Torture

    As it happens I just saw a TV movie on Hiroshima today.

    The impression I got was that, despite all the movie's talk of the Japanese already being willing to surrender, there is no proof of that, and the fact is they didn't do it until we dropped the bombs. However, we killed some 200,000 people with the two bombs and probably could have prevented that by bombing an uninhabited area in Japan. We had to show the Japanese we were capable of and willing to use nuclear weapons, but we didn't actually have to use nuclear weapons, in my view. So my answer would be that the atomic bomb was necessary; Hiroshima may not have been.

    As for torture- how should we know? I reserve judgement for its necessity until secret documents surrounding it have been released, and that may take up to several decades.

  7. #57
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    Re: Hiroshima Bombing vs. Torture

    Quote Originally Posted by Inferno View Post
    They were already defeated. We just had to drop the bomb. They would have quit.
    We did drop the bomb.

    They didn't quit.

    So we did it again,

    Then they did.

    Some nations are slow learners.

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    Re: Hiroshima Bombing vs. Torture

    [quote=Dav;1058065643]As it happens I just saw a TV movie on Hiroshima today.

    The impression I got was that, despite all the movie's talk of the Japanese already being willing to surrender, there is no proof of that, and the fact is they didn't do it until we dropped the bombs. However, we killed some 200,000 people with the two bombs and probably could have prevented that by bombing an uninhabited area in Japan.[quote]

    And the point of that would have been? We should waste a billion dollar asset on something that didn't exist in Japan, open space?

    Know how many Japanese Curtis LaMay killed in one night by firebombing Kyoto? 200,000.

    That was early in 1945, you can look up the date.

    Did the Japanese surrender, even though we'd demonstrated complete air superiority and could wipe out entire cities at will with squadrons of airplanes?

    No.

    Did the Japanese surrender when we demonstrated that we had the power to wipe out entire cities with one airplane?

    No.

    Did the Japanese surrender when we demonstrated what we were willing to destroy as many cities as it took to get them to surrender, and there was nothing they could do about it?

    Yes.


    Quote Originally Posted by Dav View Post
    As for torture- how should we know? I reserve judgement for its necessity until secret documents surrounding it have been released, and that may take up to several decades.
    As for torture.

    Well, it extracts valuable information from people who not only want us dead, but are actively working to make us dead.

    That's one thing in it's favor.

    The value of that information can be measured in lives saved. That's indisputable.

    That's another.

    So what's the problem? There's no need to quantify the number of lives saved versus number of testicles crushed, is there?
    Last edited by Scarecrow Akhbar; 06-05-09 at 02:14 PM.

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    Re: Hiroshima Bombing vs. Torture

    And so, we continued to beat on them.
    That's how war works -- you issue terms, and then the other side accepts or declines. If they decline, the war continues.

    In this case, it meant using nuclear weapons in an attempt to hasten the end of the war and save lives.
    But not on terms the US demanded so your argument is moot.
    In other words, they weren't willing to surrender at the terms presented to them, and therefore, by definition, they weren't willing to surrender.
    That's the entire point; the US was more willing to kill 200,000 civilians than negotiate.

  10. #60
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    Re: Hiroshima Bombing vs. Torture

    Quote Originally Posted by Dav View Post
    As it happens I just saw a TV movie on Hiroshima today.

    The impression I got was that, despite all the movie's talk of the Japanese already being willing to surrender, there is no proof of that, and the fact is they didn't do it until we dropped the bombs.
    Bingo. The only certainity in the willingness of Japan to surrender is presented only by those with an agenda to impugn the US. Instead of analyzing the events and the facts in a neutral fashion and then rendering a conclusion, history and events are revised or aligned such that the predetermined goal of impugning the US' actions can be achieved. The foolish strategy assumed by many here that one can speculate with any degree of certainty about what the Japanese WOULD have done based on nothing more than an overactive imagination is truly absurd.

    What you will NOT see from such people is WW2 documents, quotes, or plans that would substantiate their conspiracy theories. Instead, all that will be put forth is plausibility and speculation based on the attitudes, hindsight of today coupled with some pretty wording. I encourage everyone to recognize this anti-intellectual revisionist trash for what it is.

    However, we killed some 200,000 people with the two bombs and probably could have prevented that by bombing an uninhabited area in Japan. We had to show the Japanese we were capable of and willing to use nuclear weapons, but we didn't actually have to use nuclear weapons, in my view. So my answer would be that the atomic bomb was necessary; Hiroshima may not have been.
    except both hiroshima and nagasaki were valuable military targets despite their populations. Whether firebombing or nuclear bombing they would be targeted in the anticipated invasion of Japan. This fact refutes the notion that hiroshima and nagasaki were bombed solely for terrorism.
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