View Poll Results: Hiroshima Bombing vs. Torture

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  • Hiroshima was worse

    14 50.00%
  • Torture is worse

    4 14.29%
  • Hiroshima was neseccary

    22 78.57%
  • Torture was neseccary

    8 28.57%
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Thread: Hiroshima Bombing vs. Torture

  1. #31
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    Re: Hiroshima Bombing vs. Torture

    Quote Originally Posted by Khayembii Communique View Post
    There is little point in attempting precisely to impute Japan's unconditional surrender to any one of the numerous causes which jointly and cumulatively were responsible for Japan's disaster. The time lapse between military impotence and political acceptance of the inevitable might have been shorter had the political structure of Japan permitted a more rapid and decisive determination of national policies. Nevertheless, it seems clear that, even without the atomic bombing attacks, air supremacy over Japan could have exerted sufficient pressure to bring about unconditional surrender and obviate the need for invasion.

    Based on a detailed investigation of all the facts, and supported by the testimony of the surviving Japanese leaders involved, it is the Survey's opinion that certainly prior to 31 December 1945, and in all probability prior to 1 November 1945, Japan would have surrendered even if the atomic bombs had not been dropped, even if Russia had not entered the war, and even if no invasion had been planned or contemplated.

    US Strategic Bombing Survey





    And so the bombs were unnecessary, as it is quite clear that Japan was willing to surrender.

    I thank for your response, but you still have not addressed that the surrender being of Japanese Government. The sentiment of the Japanese culture is one of honor and warriors. They would drop dead before they allowed another nation-state to occupy theirs without a measure of the occupying nation-state's power.
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  2. #32
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    Re: Hiroshima Bombing vs. Torture

    I thank for your response, but you still have not addressed that the surrender being of Japanese Government. The sentiment of the Japanese culture is one of honor and warriors. They would drop dead before they allowed another nation-state to occupy theirs without a measure of the occupying nation-state's power.
    If that were the case then I don't think they would have offered to surrender.

  3. #33
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    Re: Hiroshima Bombing vs. Torture

    Quote Originally Posted by Khayembii Communique View Post
    There is little point in attempting precisely to impute Japan's unconditional surrender to any one of the numerous causes which jointly and cumulatively were responsible for Japan's disaster. The time lapse between military impotence and political acceptance of the inevitable might have been shorter had the political structure of Japan permitted a more rapid and decisive determination of national policies. Nevertheless, it seems clear that, even without the atomic bombing attacks, air supremacy over Japan could have exerted sufficient pressure to bring about unconditional surrender and obviate the need for invasion.
    I love the 'could have' and 'might have been' and "it seems clear'.
    I wonder how these terms would be viewed if they were something issued by the Bush administration.

    Fact is, prior to the bombs being dropped, the Japanese had not surrendered. However 'open' some of them may have been to the idea, they had not done so -- and so, absent that surrender, the ONLY prudent course of action is to contine to attack the Japanese with the full force af the allied war machine.

    That includes the use of the nuclear weapons. It also includes the continued use of incendiary raids, and, if the surrender still doesn't come, an invasion.

    Based on a detailed investigation of all the facts, and supported by the testimony of the surviving Japanese leaders involved, it is the Survey's opinion that certainly prior to 31 December 1945, and in all probability prior to 1 November 1945, Japan would have surrendered even if the atomic bombs had not been dropped, even if Russia had not entered the war, and even if no invasion had been planned or contemplated.
    Assuming that is indeed accurate -- how could have any of this in any way been known to any degree on certainty -before- the end of the war?

    And so the bombs were unnecessary, as it is quite clear that Japan was willing to surrender.
    You keep saying that -- and yet, there was no surrender.
    Last edited by Goobieman; 06-05-09 at 12:29 PM.

  4. #34
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    Re: Hiroshima Bombing vs. Torture

    Quote Originally Posted by Scarecrow Akhbar View Post
    Hiroshima was necessary because the Japs refused to surrender.

    Too bad for them.

    Enhanced interrogation of the Gitmo detainees is necessary when they won't talk.

    What's the big deal, it's not like they're human?
    They were willing to surrender they were not willing to surrender on our terms. They wanted it their way. So the bombs were BS>

    Let be know how you feel about torture when they are doing it to our troops. Tell me then the difference between torture and torture lite.
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  5. #35
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    Re: Hiroshima Bombing vs. Torture

    Thanks to the stupidity of Japan's military, and government, the world learned, or should have learned, a valuable lesson....
    don't attack a powerful nation and then when they have you by the throat expect to be given quarter...
    Wars are not fought by the rules of badminton....
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  6. #36
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    Re: Hiroshima Bombing vs. Torture

    Quote Originally Posted by Inferno View Post
    They were willing to surrender they were not willing to surrender on our terms.
    And so, we continued to beat on them.
    That's how war works -- you issue terms, and then the other side accepts or declines. If they decline, the war continues.

    In this case, it meant using nuclear weapons in an attempt to hasten the end of the war and save lives.

  7. #37
    activist professor Inferno's Avatar
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    Re: Hiroshima Bombing vs. Torture

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    And so, we continued to beat on them.
    That's how war works -- you issue terms, and then the other side accepts or declines. If they decline, the war continues.

    In this case, it meant using nuclear weapons in an attempt to hasten the end of the war and save lives.
    It was just an excuse to drop this weapon that we spent the big bucks on. We could then really study the effects of nuclear holocaust. That I guess was one of the benefits from your view. Whats a few dead civilians when we can see what radiation does to them. Yipee Go Team America.
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  8. #38
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    Re: Hiroshima Bombing vs. Torture

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    And so, we continued to beat on them.
    That's how war works -- you issue terms, and then the other side accepts or declines. If they decline, the war continues.

    In this case, it meant using nuclear weapons in an attempt to hasten the end of the war and save lives.
    I read somewhere that the decision was influenced by the desire to let the Russians know that we had the bomb. Supposedly Stalin already knew we had it, but may not have known just how powerful it was.
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  9. #39
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    Re: Hiroshima Bombing vs. Torture

    Quote Originally Posted by Inferno View Post
    It was just an excuse to drop this weapon that we spent the big bucks on.
    No... it was a means to affect the defeat of the enemy.

    In war, especially in a total war, you use every means available to force the other side to surrender as quickly as possible -- anything less means the war goes on longer than necessary, and more people die.

    To NOT use the bombs, chosing instead to allow thw war to go on longer than necessary, resulting in the deaths of more Americans -and- Japanese, would have been irresponsible.

  10. #40
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    Re: Hiroshima Bombing vs. Torture

    Quote Originally Posted by UtahBill View Post
    I read somewhere that the decision was influenced by the desire to let the Russians know that we had the bomb. Supposedly Stalin already knew we had it, but may not have known just how powerful it was.
    I am sure that is part of the reason -- and its a perfectly legitimate reason at that. The US and USSR were co-belligerents, not allies, and had numerous competing interests.

    Consider, too, had we not seen the destruction of Hiroshima and nagasaki, how much more likely a nuclear exchnage between the US and USSR might have been.

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