View Poll Results: Do you favore the Employee Free Choice Act

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  • Yes, I am completely in favor of the act

    2 5.71%
  • Yes, I am in favor, but with some reservations

    2 5.71%
  • No, I am opposed, but with some reservations

    3 8.57%
  • No, I am totally opposed

    25 71.43%
  • Don't know, Don't care.

    3 8.57%
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Thread: Employee Free Choice Act

  1. #11
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    Re: Employee Free Choice Act

    Quote Originally Posted by Cephus View Post
    Like I said, video cameras are your friend. I forgot the time that there was a "union rally" going on outside and a rock came sailing through the front window, almost hitting the receptionist. The police showed up, nobody could prove who threw the rock and the union claimed it must have been someone not associated with the union. They had to replace the window via an insurance claim.

    Yes, these are wonderful people, these union asshats.
    why does anyone feel the need to do this? If a shop doesn't want to unionize, why don't the unions just go to some other shop. It doesn't seem like THAT big of a deal to vandalize and throw rocks....

  2. #12
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    Re: Employee Free Choice Act

    Quote Originally Posted by DarkWizard12 View Post
    why does anyone feel the need to do this? If a shop doesn't want to unionize, why don't the unions just go to some other shop. It doesn't seem like THAT big of a deal to vandalize and throw rocks....
    Unions are a business. A shady, monopolistic, thuggish business. And like any other business, they want as many customers as possible...in this case, dues-paying members. What they don't seem to realize is that their intimidation tactics might win them a few factories in the short term, but it alienates the public at large and makes it more difficult for them to win in the long term.
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  3. #13
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    Re: Employee Free Choice Act

    Ive not really had direct experience with this sort of thing, but to the best of my knowledge Unions aren't a big issue in the South as they are in the North.
    I know some police departments in the north and midwest are able to unionize but I believe it is against our State Law here.

    What do these union members get in return for paying dues?

  4. #14
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    Re: Employee Free Choice Act

    Quote Originally Posted by Caine View Post
    What do these union members get in return for paying dues?
    That's a very good question that workers should ask themselves.

    In theory, they get the ability to negotiate for higher pay, better benefits, more time off, and the ability to stick it to The Man. In practice, they usually don't get much of anything, except a new deduction on their paycheck for union dues.


    Most unions don't do a damn thing...and the ones that do are even scarier, because they manage to destroy companies and muck up entire state economies. My home state, Ohio, is a perfect example of this. For decades, we've been one of the most pro-union states in the country...and as a result, we have one of the worst economies in the country, since no large business in their right mind would set up shop in Ohio.
    Last edited by Kandahar; 06-04-09 at 10:44 PM.
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  5. #15
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    Re: Employee Free Choice Act

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    That's a very good question that workers should ask themselves.

    In theory, they get the ability to negotiate for higher pay, better benefits, more time off, and the ability to stick it to The Man. In practice, they usually don't get much of anything, except a new deduction on their paycheck for union dues.


    Most unions don't do a damn thing...and the ones that do are even scarier, because they manage to destroy companies and muck up entire state economies. My home state, Ohio, is a perfect example of this. For decades, we've been one of the most pro-union states in the country...and as a result, we have one of the worst economies in the country, since no large business in their right mind would set up shop in Ohio.
    Im no expert at this sort of discussion, but...

    Would it be safe to assume that Unions have part of the blame in why so many businesses are moving south where unions don't have a large foothold, and in turn why there is a large number of people migrating to the south to find jobs?

  6. #16
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    Re: Employee Free Choice Act

    Quote Originally Posted by Caine View Post
    Im no expert at this sort of discussion, but...

    Would it be safe to assume that Unions have part of the blame in why so many businesses are moving south where unions don't have a large foothold, and in turn why there is a large number of people migrating to the south to find jobs?
    Yes to an extent I suspect. Leaving aside any question of actual costs to a business, unions provide an extra level of bureaucracy that businesses have to deal with, and getting away from that is seen by many businesses as a plus. At my job, which is nonunion, I could in theory be fired for just about any reason, or no reason. While in practice this is never used, it's a comfort for supervisors to know they could. Nonunion shops are more flexible from a management standpoint.

    Unions do serve as a positive force at times, in fact I think most unions are generally positive for workers. They give workers a better negotiating position and provide an extra set of protections for a worker. They make workers feel more empowered, which is nice.

    To illustrate this, going back to my experiences: the call to unionize happened after an incident where I work. A bunch of people(7 or 8) where going out to their cars and getting high on breaks on third shift. The company found out, and one day we came in, and about 20 people got immediately sent to do a drug test, and those who failed where summarily fired. A few stoners got scared that more drug testing was going to happen, and went to the UAW to ask if they could provide some protections from random drug tests without actual cause, and where told yes(not sure if they actually could or not but the UAW told them they could). The union protects the workers, and the employer does not want the workers to have that extra protection.

  7. #17
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    Re: Employee Free Choice Act

    Quote Originally Posted by Caine View Post
    Ive not really had direct experience with this sort of thing, but to the best of my knowledge Unions aren't a big issue in the South as they are in the North.
    referring to something as "the Union" in the south is not exactly great branding. especially if you want people to join it

    I know some police departments in the north and midwest are able to unionize but I believe it is against our State Law here.
    it is not against the law to form or join a union. 5 USC chapter 71 gives the unions the right of formation. in NC and a few other states, the state government has codified law stating that no state government office can participate in union activities. since it takes two to negotiate, that effectively eliminates the ability of the unions to be effective with governmental employers. NC has two (dis)organized teachers' unions ... but neither has any clout
    there are strange exceptions. for instance, in charlotte, the city acquired the bus system from a private owner, but after it had been unionized. so the city of charlotte had to establish a quasi-governmental bureau to do nothing but serve as the laision for the unionized bus drivers in order to circumvent the state laws prohibiting state/local governments from negotiating with unions. the drivers have a right to, and have gone on strikes, to effect gains, despite being owned by the city

    What do these union members get in return for paying dues?
    collective bargaining regarding terms and conditions of employment
    freedom from being fired a week before vesting in the company retirement program because otherwise the employer can - and often will - terminate that older worker anytime for any reason as an 'at will' employee

  8. #18
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    Re: Employee Free Choice Act

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    Unions are a business. A shady, monopolistic, thuggish business. And like any other business, they want as many customers as possible...in this case, dues-paying members. What they don't seem to realize is that their intimidation tactics might win them a few factories in the short term, but it alienates the public at large and makes it more difficult for them to win in the long term.
    Which is why the unions try to gather massive power so they can force long-term contracts and not worry about what the public thinks. Unions buy politicians and keep laws off the books that would harm unions while pushing laws that make them stronger.

    Like most businesses, unions only see things in the short term, they want immediate gratification even if it means ultimate failure somewhere down the road.
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  9. #19
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    Re: Employee Free Choice Act

    Quote Originally Posted by Caine View Post
    Im no expert at this sort of discussion, but...

    Would it be safe to assume that Unions have part of the blame in why so many businesses are moving south where unions don't have a large foothold, and in turn why there is a large number of people migrating to the south to find jobs?
    Yes, goonionization is one of the reasons businesses walk.

    Excessive taxation is the primary cause, though.

  10. #20
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    Re: Employee Free Choice Act

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    Yes to an extent I suspect. Leaving aside any question of actual costs to a business, unions provide an extra level of bureaucracy that businesses have to deal with, and getting away from that is seen by many businesses as a plus. At my job, which is nonunion, I could in theory be fired for just about any reason, or no reason. While in practice this is never used, it's a comfort for supervisors to know they could. Nonunion shops are more flexible from a management standpoint.

    Unions do serve as a positive force at times, in fact I think most unions are generally positive for workers. They give workers a better negotiating position and provide an extra set of protections for a worker. They make workers feel more empowered, which is nice.

    To illustrate this, going back to my experiences: the call to unionize happened after an incident where I work. A bunch of people(7 or 8) where going out to their cars and getting high on breaks on third shift. The company found out, and one day we came in, and about 20 people got immediately sent to do a drug test, and those who failed where summarily fired. A few stoners got scared that more drug testing was going to happen, and went to the UAW to ask if they could provide some protections from random drug tests without actual cause, and where told yes(not sure if they actually could or not but the UAW told them they could). The union protects the workers, and the employer does not want the workers to have that extra protection.
    Well then, I thought unions were supposed to negotiate fair pays and safe working conditions, why in the HELL would they claim they are going to do away with drug testing when it can create an unsafe working environment (ie. high auto manufacturing workers).

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