View Poll Results: See OP for 2-pat question

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  • The court will hear the case (or one like it)

    11 50.00%
  • The court will NOT hear the case (or one like it)

    1 4.55%
  • The court will incorporate the 2nd against the states

    8 36.36%
  • The court will NOT incorporate the 2nd against the states

    4 18.18%
  • Other

    2 9.09%
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Thread: Will the SCotUS incorporate the 2nd amendement against the states?

  1. #21
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    Re: Will the SCotUS incorporate the 2nd amendement against the states?

    Quote Originally Posted by RightinNYC View Post
    FN 23 of Heller:

    Alternatively (and more accurately), you could say that the purpose of the Second Amendment was to ensure that the people (read: states) could protect themselves from a tyrannical federal government.
    Which I could see happening in my lifetime.

  2. #22
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    Re: Will the SCotUS incorporate the 2nd amendement against the states?

    Quote Originally Posted by RightinNYC View Post
    Alternatively (and more accurately), you could say that the purpose of the Second Amendment was to ensure that the people (read: states) could protect themselves from a tyrannical federal government.
    No, less accurate, (that means more wrong, less correct, not as right, wronger, etc, if you need synonymous concepts)

    If you've ever read the Second Amendment, you probably noticed that it says "right of the people", not "the right of the several states".

    That means the people get the guns, not the states. The only reason people pretend the Second Amendment means "states" where it says "people" is that they can't tell the truth to themselves and continue supporting the positions they do.

    Heller re-affirmed the correct notion that the Second Amendment grants gun ownership as an individual right, not some kind of state preserve to be doled out as the local yokels desire.
    Last edited by Scarecrow Akhbar; 06-04-09 at 12:38 PM.

  3. #23
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    Re: Will the SCotUS incorporate the 2nd amendement against the states?

    Quote Originally Posted by RightinNYC View Post
    Alternatively (and more accurately), you could say that the purpose of the Second Amendment was to ensure that the people (read: states) could protect themselves from a tyrannical federal government.
    This would be an example of people sometimes needing to kill other people.
    It is but one example of why we have the right to arms, and but one example if why it is protected by the Constitution.

  4. #24
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    Re: Will the SCotUS incorporate the 2nd amendement against the states?

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    This would be an example of people sometimes needing to kill other people.
    It is but one example of why we have the right to arms, and but one example if why it is protected by the Constitution.
    The saying the pen is mighter than the sword comes to mind for me. By the printing press/mass media is where revolutions against tyranical governments happen not guns and bullets.

  5. #25
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    Re: Will the SCotUS incorporate the 2nd amendement against the states?

    Quote Originally Posted by RightinNYC View Post

    Alternatively (and more accurately), you could say that the purpose of the Second Amendment was to ensure that the people (read: states) could protect themselves from a tyrannical federal government.
    No. The Constitution says "the States" when it means "the States" and "the People" when it means "the People." There is no other provision of the Constitution where "the People" is taken to mean "the States." None. In fact, the Ninth Amendment differentiates between the two in the same sentence.
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    Re: Will the SCotUS incorporate the 2nd amendement against the states?

    Quote Originally Posted by winston53660 View Post
    The saying the pen is mighter than the sword comes to mind for me. By the printing press/mass media is where revolutions against tyranical governments happen not guns and bullets.
    There are several thousand years of history which belie that statement.

    Yes, there are examples of non-violent resistance being effective, but they are few and as against nations (such as Britain) which were far from tyrannical.

    Besides, why would you want to preclude a bulwark against tyranny?
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  7. #27
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    Re: Will the SCotUS incorporate the 2nd amendement against the states?

    Quote Originally Posted by winston53660 View Post
    The saying the pen is mighter than the sword comes to mind for me. By the printing press/mass media is where revolutions against tyranical governments happen not guns and bullets.
    THis is, to a degree, true - the American revolution was over before the first shots were fired at Lexington and Concorde.

    However, without that ability to exert force agianst that tyranical government, all the print in the world is meaningless.

    One way or another, when people disagree, the resolution always boils down to the ability to exert force.

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    Re: Will the SCotUS incorporate the 2nd amendement against the states?

    I voted it won't be incorporated.

    From what I can gather, we only incorporate privileges and immunities that progressives are interested in incorporating.

    Original intent matters. In this case, the intent of the 14th was to word it in such a bizarre fashion dealing with privileges and immunities because we were too racist to allow free slaves to own guns.

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    Re: Will the SCotUS incorporate the 2nd amendement against the states?

    The individuals right to bear arms is sacrosanct. No court will ever try to take those rights away.

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    Re: Will the SCotUS incorporate the 2nd amendement against the states?

    Quote Originally Posted by Catman View Post
    The individuals right to bear arms is sacrosanct. No court will ever try to take those rights away.
    they don't have to take it away. Legislature is actively being pursued that stops government from protecting this right, and historically, the courts have been quite silent while they do so.

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