View Poll Results: See OP for 2-pat question

Voters
22. You may not vote on this poll
  • The court will hear the case (or one like it)

    11 50.00%
  • The court will NOT hear the case (or one like it)

    1 4.55%
  • The court will incorporate the 2nd against the states

    8 36.36%
  • The court will NOT incorporate the 2nd against the states

    4 18.18%
  • Other

    2 9.09%
Multiple Choice Poll.
Page 12 of 17 FirstFirst ... 21011121314 ... LastLast
Results 111 to 120 of 164

Thread: Will the SCotUS incorporate the 2nd amendement against the states?

  1. #111
    Global Moderator
    The Hammer of Chaos
    Goshin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Dixie
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 08:13 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    40,476

    Re: Will the SCotUS incorporate the 2nd amendement against the states?

    Quote Originally Posted by Smash23 View Post
    I'm entirely aware of what the Supreme Court has said about the 2nd Amendment, doesn't mean I have to agree with them.
    Hm...

    You don't hold with original intent.

    You don't care what the Supremes say about it.

    What does that leave, other than just your opinion?

    Fiddling While Rome Burns
    Carthago Delenda Est
    "I used to roll the dice; see the fear in my enemies' eyes... listen as the crowd would sing, 'now the old king is dead, Long Live the King.'.."

  2. #112
    User
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Last Seen
    07-22-09 @ 12:28 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    19

    Re: Will the SCotUS incorporate the 2nd amendement against the states?

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    Hmm.
    What do they call it when you disagree with the controlling authority?
    Pissing into the wind?
    You mean like when our Founding Fathers disagreed with authority? I'm pretty sure they were pissing into a hurricane.
    And assuming that the 'controlling authority' is infallible is a logical fallacy, its called appeal to authority.

  3. #113
    User
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Last Seen
    07-22-09 @ 12:28 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    19

    Re: Will the SCotUS incorporate the 2nd amendement against the states?

    Quote Originally Posted by Goshin View Post
    Hm...

    You don't hold with original intent.

    You don't care what the Supremes say about it.

    What does that leave, other than just your opinion?

    Disagreeing with someone and not caring about what they say are two different things. It's called an opinion for a reason. Just as you are welcome to one, so am I.

  4. #114
    Banned Goobieman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Last Seen
    03-22-15 @ 12:36 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Very Conservative
    Posts
    17,343

    Re: Will the SCotUS incorporate the 2nd amendement against the states?

    Quote Originally Posted by Smash23 View Post
    You mean like when our Founding Fathers disagreed with authority? I'm pretty sure they were pissing into a hurricane.
    Well, you can believe what you want -- but in order for you to have any legitimate discussion of the issue, you have to recognize and accept the fact that the 2nd amendment, according to those who determine these things, does indeed cover an individual right to arms.

    Your statement of disagreement holds no water.

  5. #115
    Banned Goobieman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Last Seen
    03-22-15 @ 12:36 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Very Conservative
    Posts
    17,343

    Re: Will the SCotUS incorporate the 2nd amendement against the states?

    Quote Originally Posted by Goshin View Post
    Hm...
    You don't hold with original intent.
    You don't care what the Supremes say about it.
    What does that leave, other than just your opinion?
    And, how do you support an opinion regarding a matter of law when you automatically dismiss any and every decision made by any any and every court?

  6. #116
    User
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Last Seen
    07-22-09 @ 12:28 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    19

    Re: Will the SCotUS incorporate the 2nd amendement against the states?

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    Well, you can believe what you want -- but in order for you to have any legitimate discussion of the issue, you have to recognize and accept the fact that the 2nd amendment, according to those who determine these things, does indeed cover an individual right to arms.

    Your statement of disagreement holds no water.
    This is my original post on this thread, I suggest you read it. I recognize the actions of the Supreme Court, but that does not mean I have to agree with every decision they render.
    "Just as war is freedom's cost, disagreement is freedom's privilege."


    Quote Originally Posted by Smash23 View Post
    While personally I don't believe that the Second Amendment applies to regular citizens being able to own guns, I think that the 2nd Amendment will be incorporated.

    The reason I don't believe that the 2nd Amendment applies to regular citizens is this:


    However, the Supreme Court has interpreted this Amendment differently. In Presser v. Illinois the Court ruled that the Second Amendment right was a right of individuals.


    Although Presser v. Illinois and United States v. Cruikshank both affirmed that the 2nd Amendment applies only to the Federal government and not the states, I think that the current Supreme Court will affirm otherwise.
    The Court has determined that the Fourteenth Amendment's due process clause incorporates most of the Bill of Rights. Most of the amendments have already been incorporated including the 1st, 3rd, 4th, most of the 5th, and the 6th. The 2nd Amendment has also already been incorporated by the 9th Circuit Court of Appeals. Personally, I think the Supreme Court will do the same.

  7. #117
    Banned Goobieman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Last Seen
    03-22-15 @ 12:36 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Very Conservative
    Posts
    17,343

    Re: Will the SCotUS incorporate the 2nd amendement against the states?

    Quote Originally Posted by Smash23 View Post
    This is my original post on this thread
    I read it. I responded directly to the part that said:
    While personally I don't believe that the Second Amendment applies to regular citizens being able to own guns,
    How about supplying some support for that belief.
    Be sure to avoid citing any court decisions.
    I recognize the actions of the Supreme Court, but that does not mean I have to agree with every decision they render.
    You can disagree all you want -- and you can do so on the grounds that citing a ruling by a court is 'an appeal to authority' -- it only means that, in terms of having a discussion regarding the 2nd amendment as law, and the legal issues surrounding it, your position is unsupportable.

  8. #118
    User
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Last Seen
    07-22-09 @ 12:28 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    19

    Re: Will the SCotUS incorporate the 2nd amendement against the states?

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    How about supplying some support for that belief.
    Be sure to avoid citing any court decisions.
    I've already posted why I believe so. My interpretation of the 2nd Amendment is different from that of the Supreme Court. The Court has a right to rule they way they did, but I also have a right to disagree with them. Simple as that. And you jumping down my throat because of my opinion is ridiculous.

    You can disagree all you want -- and you can do so on the grounds that citing a ruling by a court is 'an appeal to authority' -- it only means that, in terms of having a discussion regarding the 2nd amendment as law, and the legal issues surrounding it, your position is unsupportable.
    I wasn't having a discussion about the 2nd amendment. My first conversation on this thread had to do with original intent and the legitimacy of our federal courts system. Again, I suggest you read it. I never claimed that the Supreme Court was unfounded in it's decision. I did not say that citing a ruling from a court is an appeal to authority. It's an appeal to authority when you assume that the 'authority' is always correct, without analyzing the argument.

  9. #119
    Banned Goobieman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Last Seen
    03-22-15 @ 12:36 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Very Conservative
    Posts
    17,343

    Re: Will the SCotUS incorporate the 2nd amendement against the states?

    Quote Originally Posted by Smash23 View Post
    I've already posted why I believe so.
    The "preamble" argument?

    This is only sound if you can show that "the right of the people to keep and bear arms" is comprised exclusively of the right to bear arms in the service of the militia, to the exclusion of any and all other occasions -- the amendment protects the RKBA in its entiretly, regardless of any stated reason; to argue that the 2nd only protects the collective right in militia service, you have to show that the right, in its entirety, consists only of the collective right.

    My interpretation of the 2nd Amendment is different from that of the Supreme Court. The Court has a right to rule they way they did, but I also have a right to disagree with them. Simple as that. And you jumping down my throat because of my opinion is ridiculous.
    Telling you that your conflicting opinion holds no weight in a discussion regarding the legal issues surrounding the 2nd isn't jumping down your throat - it's a statement of fact.

    I wasn't having a discussion about the 2nd amendment.
    You made a statement regarding the 2nd. I addressed that statement.

    I never claimed that the Supreme Court was unfounded in it's decision. I did not say that citing a ruling from a court is an appeal to authority. It's an appeal to authority when you assume that the 'authority' is always correct, without analyzing the argument.
    I dont recall seeing your analysis of the court's argument when you brought up the 'appeal to authority' fallacy. Please provide your analysis the relevant decision that shows the unsoundness of the court's decision.
    Last edited by Goobieman; 06-08-09 at 02:51 PM.

  10. #120
    Sage
    Bodhisattva's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    New Zealand
    Last Seen
    Today @ 03:30 AM
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    48,643

    Re: Will the SCotUS incorporate the 2nd amendement against the states?

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    Hmm.
    What do they call it when you disagree with the controlling authority?
    Pissing into the wind?
    SCOTUS is fallible, and this has been addressed a million times... why do you choose to ignore it? Oh, because you agree with THIS decision, that is why.
    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    The Supreme Court can't interpret The Constitution. They don't have that power.

Page 12 of 17 FirstFirst ... 21011121314 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •