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Revolution?

Will we have revolution? in your life time?

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We have a voluntary military. They are not firing at American soil or citizens.

Mostly you are correct. However, there are those whom have a lineage of serving this Nation-State, and they are drawn to their role as the defenders of the Union.
Do remember that soldiers are made out of pharmacists during times of great conflict. Deserters to the banner of the US Military will be held as traitors.
 
Ye know I find it weird, Scarecrow, that you can consider Socialism, as the tool of these men (Stalin, Che, Mao), the demon that needs to be banished. However, I am assure you are highly protective of Gun-Rights. Why do you not apply the logic that guns do not kill people, people kill people to Socialism?

I must remind you all. Socialism did not make these names (Stalin, Che, Mao), these names branded their own Socialism.

I must reminds you that just because you don't understand it doesn't mean it's not correct. All socialists have a serious disconnect understanding history, since they want to pretend that some mysterious economic force rules the world when in the reality what rules human actions is the people making those events happen.

Yes, Stalin, Cheese, Mayo, Pol Pot, Castro, Hitler, Hussein, Mugabe, and all the rest have modified some nonsensical generic whitebread of socialism to fit their own agenda of power acquisition and murder. It's what socialism is for.

Socialism is a religion for the ignorant masses and like all religions it is used as a tool by the cunning manipulators to control those masses, gain power, and serve their own selfish purposes.

Once you've matured to the point that you can recognize socialism for the religion that it is, you can begin maybe to divorce yourself from the Ruby Slippers and Kool-Aid aspects of it. Most do not, however.
 
Before you call someone dishonest you may want to be more informed of the topic on which you speak.

Then explain to me how Your capitalism is more voluntary than my socialism. Please I am interested to know more.

You will have to explain to me what fantasy version of socialism you subscribe to. If it's some dreamy existence where everyone agrees to to a utilitarian utopia of pure equality, then what's the point debating? We might as well debate about if superman could beat up batman.

I'm speaking of the real kind of socialism we see in the real world. Where people are forced to submit to a "greater good"

You may want to tell me after you pay your income tax and your food tax and your gas tax and your inheritance tax and your tax on tax. let me know which of those is voluntary for you. I will stop paying that as well.

what do various forms of taxation have to do with your point or even a discussion of capitalism for that matter?
 
Mostly you are correct. However, there are those whom have a lineage of serving this Nation-State, and they are drawn to their role as the defenders of the Union.
Do remember that soldiers are made out of pharmacists during times of great conflict. Deserters to the banner of the US Military will be held as traitors.

They just need a little convincing.
 
This is an intelligent post. I like it. That is why I keep saying that there are bastardizations of socialism. These forms are not socialism in fact. They are concoctions thrown up by violent revolution. They make a tyrant leader.

What you're trying to say is the equivalent of saying that Southern Baptists aren't Christians, nor are Lutherans, Mormons (Mormons are christians, just ask one), Methodists, Catholics, or Branch Davidians.

The fact is that they're all Christians, and all the dictators I listed are all socialists.

Just because you want to pretend that their brand of socialism is so different from your brand of socialism that they can't possibly be socialists doesn't make it true.

You want to pretend your evil religion isn't responsible for the deaths of over a hundred million people just as today's Christians want to pretend that the practice of Christianity isn't responsible for the deaths of hundreds of millions over the millenia.

You're both wrong.
 
I must reminds you that just because you don't understand it doesn't mean it's not correct. All socialists have a serious disconnect understanding history, since they want to pretend that some mysterious economic force rules the world when in the reality what rules human actions is the people making those events happen.

Haha. Please explain to me how Capitalism and Adam Smith's Invisible hand cannot be described as "some mysterious economic force"?

Yes, Stalin, Cheese, Mayo, Pol Pot, Castro, Hitler, Hussein, Mugabe, and all the rest have modified some nonsensical generic whitebread of socialism to fit their own agenda of power acquisition and murder. It's what socialism is for.

Please show me how this is only an attribute of Socialism and not Capitalism or any other form of Economy/Gov't.

Socialism is a religion for the ignorant masses and like all religions it is used as a tool by the cunning manipulators to control those masses, gain power, and serve their own selfish purposes.

Likewise. How does this not apply to all other forms?
Once you've matured to the point that you can recognize socialism for the religion that it is, you can begin maybe to divorce yourself from the Ruby Slippers and Kool-Aid aspects of it. Most do not, however.

I don't understand the "Ruby Slippers and Kool-Aid" aspects you are talking about. You somehow manage to compare Wizard of Oz with Socialism?
 
Haha. Please explain to me how Capitalism and Adam Smith's Invisible hand cannot be described as "some mysterious economic force"?

The "Invisible Hand" is a fairytale that Libertarians tell to describe all the complexities (which are actually quite simple) of the system that they either don't can't explain fully or just don't want to explain.


Please show me how this is only an attribute of Socialism and not Capitalism or any other form of Economy/Gov't.

Capitalism does not involve manipulation by force, does not involve government intervention, and includes no propagandized notions of "enemies of the state" or "enemies of the people."


I don't understand the "Ruby Slippers and Kool-Aid" aspects you are talking about. You somehow manage to compare Wizard of Oz with Socialism?

It is a fantasy, just like a positive form of socialism outside of a voluntary commune.
 
I admit I am no expert on socialist countries but I can't think of a socialist country in modern times that has not relied on trade with a capitalist country to sustain a good portion of their economy. We have been the worlds cash cow for decades.


If our country was as it was intended with the most power being given to our local government followed by state and finaly federal government. It would be in the power of the people to turn their county/state into a socialist type government. I am not comfortable having the entire country lean toward socialism but if the people of a state wanted it I would be all for it. Let the people have what they want without imposing it on the entire country. That is some of the freedoms our founding fathers had in mind but what our progressive federal government has worked to hard to distroy.
 
You will have to explain to me what fantasy version of socialism you subscribe to. If it's some dreamy existence where everyone agrees to to a utilitarian utopia of pure equality, then what's the point debating? We might as well debate about if superman could beat up batman.

I'm speaking of the real kind of socialism we see in the real world. Where people are forced to submit to a "greater good"



what do various forms of taxation have to do with your point or even a discussion of capitalism for that matter?

I live in a Utopian Socialistic community. I guess that would be the socialism I subscribe too. We all do live to the greater good.
 
I live in a Utopian Socialistic community. I guess that would be the socialism I subscribe too. We all do live to the greater good.

Can a capitalist community exist within a socialist state?
 
What you're trying to say is the equivalent of saying that Southern Baptists aren't Christians, nor are Lutherans, Mormons (Mormons are christians, just ask one), Methodists, Catholics, or Branch Davidians.

The fact is that they're all Christians, and all the dictators I listed are all socialists.

Just because you want to pretend that their brand of socialism is so different from your brand of socialism that they can't possibly be socialists doesn't make it true.

You want to pretend your evil religion isn't responsible for the deaths of over a hundred million people just as today's Christians want to pretend that the practice of Christianity isn't responsible for the deaths of hundreds of millions over the millenia.

You're both wrong.

It is simply not socialism.You need to read up. I say again that you are speaking from the American myth of what socialism is. The myth is not truth because one says it is. It is myth.

The lies and distortions that Americans believe to be socialism and communism are enough to fill a 1000 barrels with.
 
Haha. Please explain to me how Capitalism and Adam Smith's Invisible hand cannot be described as "some mysterious economic force"?

Nothing mysterious about it.

People like making money. Therefore if they do more than work for wages they have to hire other people to work for them to make the money. In case you're wondering, the evil capitalist is creating what is called "jobs". They're his jobs, not the workers', because a job is a task someone is willing to pay someone else to do. Because those people have jobs, they have money. When people have money it burns a hole in their pocket and they decide they want things like indoor plumbing and new clothes, and a maybe a car or a computer, and because they're buying these things, some other capitalist can make money, too, and create "jobs" themselves. Nothing "invisible" about this process. Also, when people are flush with money, they begin to feel sorry for the lazy or useless people who can't find jobs, and thus is charity born. Nothing "invisible" about this process, either, not in capitalist countries.

I understand socialists are tight bastards who demand the government fund socialist programs instead of creating and funding their own charities for their feelings of guilt.


I don't understand the "Ruby Slippers and Kool-Aid" aspects you are talking about. You somehow manage to compare Wizard of Oz with Socialism?

Don't take those Ruby Slippers off, boy. You don't get the Kool-Aid reference?
 
It is simply not socialism.You need to read up.

No.

You need to wake up.

EVERY SINGLE ONE of those monsters either rose to power promising utopia for their supporters or took power from others who made those promises.

Every one.

I say again that you are speaking from the American myth of what socialism is. The myth is not truth because one says it is. It is myth.

Like I told you, just because your version of Christianity is the one you most devoutly believe in doesn't mean it's the right one, and it doesn't mean it's the only one.

You do know that there's only one person who was truly Christian, don't you? And they nailed him to a tree.

The lies and distortions that Americans believe to be socialism and communism are enough to fill a 1000 barrels with.

Oh, the socialists have used far far more than a thousand gun barrrels to gain power.
 
ill continue this tomorrow bit drunk right now.
 
The U.S. was founded on the ideals that all men are created equal, endowed by there creator with certain unalienable rights that among these are Life, Liberty, and pursuit of happieness. These ideals are at my very soul and the soul of every other REAL American.

Socialism is the Government redistribution of wealth to create a classless society, and government ownership and/or administration of business to controll the production off goods and there by indirectly or directly controling the consumption of goods.

With my ideals I can buy all the potatos I could possibly want if that is what makes me happy. In a socialist society I can only buy what I am allowed by the government.

With my ideals, the money and articles that I work hard for in life to provide a future for my children are safe. In a socialist society all the things I have worked so hard for are taken when I die and redistributed to the lazy masses.

The ideals enshrined in the Declaration of Independence (i.e. liberty) and Socialism CAN NOT coexsit. i say again, CAN NOT! Socialism will destroy the Liberty and ultimatly lead to oppression and tyranny.

Any one who supports socialism is a traitor, a traitor to our country, our way of life and there neighbors. I will stuanchly deffend those ideals, and will be more then happy to raise arms against those that present a threat to those ideals. So if socialism does come you can count me on the list of every single supporter of socialist as I will be more then happy to raise arms against them. I would rather die and condemn the lives of my family to death then live with out freedom!

Liberty and Socialism can not exsit, any who say differently are fools!
 
Marx said that before Communism could exist two things had to occur basically. First, capitalism had to conquere the globe, and this is very close to being a reality. Second, societies had to evolve through different forms of government.
That is to say the evolution of government is: feudalism->industrialization->capitalism->socialism->communism. Europe is ahead of the game as they are older and already in socialism.

I'm not going to even pick this apart, so I'll just let you know it's completely wrong.

Very good post. However, reform be what it may, Capitalists are searching out ever cheaper labor and operating costs, and in doing so are knocking down borders and national barriers. We live in a global economy now. How much longer before the haves and the have nots exist, absent a Middle Class which is under constant attack.

This will never happen.

capitalism is voluntary association

The socialism you advocate through government is not voluntary.

I think you have those switched around, mate.

I have an excellent picture of socialism:


30,000,000 civillians murdered, Germany WWII.
50,000,000 civillians murdered, USSR
20,000,000 civillians murdered, China
3,000,000 civillians murdered, Cambodia

Pol Pot and the Khmer Rouge were primitivists and the rest weren't socialist.

I'd have to search out how many people were murdered by Castro and Che Gueverra, and the other wonderful socialists of South America, but right off the top of my head, socialism is responsible for a minimum of 103,000,000 dead people in less than fifty years.

This is obviously false; even the infamous Black Book didn't get that high, and the authors of that book admitted that they exaggerated the death toll.

If an American Revolution were to occur, and for some unforeseen events led to the toppling of the current regime the rebuilding process would not turn into a Marxist Communism, as to rebuild one would require the most productive style of Economy-- Capitalism.

The rebuilding of...what?

The power of Capitalism draws humans, as it is our nature to provide for our people and for our family.

If it is our nature to provide for people then she would have given the bread away.

You are aware that the word "Nazi" was short for Nationalsozialistische Deutsche Arbeiterpartei , or National Socialist German Workers Party, right?

See there? That magic word? "Socialist".

This was already demolished.

All socialists have a serious disconnect understanding history, since they want to pretend that some mysterious economic force rules the world when in the reality what rules human actions is the people making those events happen.

It seems that you have a serious disconnect understanding socialists.

Yes, Stalin, Cheese, Mayo, Pol Pot, Castro, Hitler, Hussein, Mugabe, and all the rest have modified some nonsensical generic whitebread of socialism to fit their own agenda of power acquisition and murder. It's what socialism is for.

And a serious disconnect understanding history.:lol:

I'm speaking of the real kind of socialism we see in the real world. Where people are forced to submit to a "greater good"

That's nationalism, not socialism.

What you're trying to say is the equivalent of saying that Southern Baptists aren't Christians, nor are Lutherans, Mormons (Mormons are christians, just ask one), Methodists, Catholics, or Branch Davidians.

The fact is that they're all Christians, and all the dictators I listed are all socialists.

Except we're discussing political ideology here, and not religion. It takes a little more than claiming to adhere to a political ideology.

It's called realpolitik.

You're both wrong.

No u

I don't think anyone in this thread has offered up a sufficient definition of what socialism actually is.
 
I think you have those switched around, mate.

no. I have them correctly identified. My economic system requires a belief in natural rights, the other one requires a belief in unicorns and/or benevolent dictators.
 
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