View Poll Results: Will we have revolution? in your life time?

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  • Yes we will have revolution and yes it will be in my lifetime

    5 20.83%
  • Yes we will someday have revolution but not any time soon.

    8 33.33%
  • No it will not happen.

    11 45.83%
  • Other

    0 0%
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Thread: Revolution?

  1. #11
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    Re: Revolution?

    Quote Originally Posted by kamino View Post
    What do you think the chances are? How long do you think it will take to get to this state, will it happen in our life time? Will you declare yourself a traitor and a terrorist and fight against government? or will you be a loyalist? I ask becuse there is a lot going on and this seems to be a reoccuring message going out. Lets talk about this, because it may be a ery real possibility.
    Revolution isn't terrorism son, unless the fools are attacking civillian non-government target and engaging in campaign of petty harassment.

    A revolution is going to involve massive numbers of people openly rebelling against the status quo that seeks to enslave them, and it's not going to be effected by dirty little bearded marxist types plotting in dark cellars.

    If the revolution comes to physical blows, it will look more like the civil war.

  2. #12
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    Re: Revolution?

    Quote Originally Posted by Inferno View Post
    Nice post. My hope is to see socialism come without a violent revolution. Socialism comes through capitalism and democracy. It is an evolutionary process. The US is far away as there are to many people steeped in greed.

    Eventually it will come.
    Though I like some of the socialist policies in Europe I fear a full movement of the U.S. to a socialist government. For one, European nations have stagnant economies. Secondly, I have many friends from abroad, namely four people from Poland and one from Nicaragua. All of them loathe socialism for the demotivation it creates in society and the destruction of the meritocracy in industry.

    Yet, like frogs in a pot, this nation is slowly being boiled in that direction. Will it destroy us? Probably not, the U.S. is good at recreating governments from the old world and possibly socialism will be the Machivalian utopia.

    More than likely, the historic economic balance will shift back to Asia and China will eclipse the U.S. economy. This will rapidly push the U.S. into socialism, which will be destructive. Our nation is at it's best with incremental changes and progress.

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    Re: Revolution?

    Quote Originally Posted by Inferno View Post
    Nice post. My hope is to see socialism come without a violent revolution.
    Why, do you hate the country that much?

    Quote Originally Posted by Inferno View Post
    Socialism comes through capitalism and democracy.
    Socialism kills capitalism, progress, and the human spirit, and makes democracy pointless.

    Quote Originally Posted by Inferno View Post
    It is an evolutionary process.
    The final step of any evolutionary process is death. Socialism is death.

    Quote Originally Posted by Inferno View Post
    The US is far away as there are to many people steeped in greed.
    "Greed". You mean people who mind their own business and endorse the concept of personal responsibility.

    Quote Originally Posted by Inferno View Post
    Eventually it will come.
    Not without people dying. Socialism is, after all, about forcing compliance. Can't have that without killing people eventually.

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    Re: Revolution?

    Quote Originally Posted by tlmorg02 View Post
    Here is my theory on this. Marx said that before Communism could exist two things had to occur basically. First, capitalism had to conquere the globe, and this is very close to being a reality. Second, societies had to evolve through different forms of government.
    That is to say the evolution of government is: feudalism->industrialization->capitalism->socialism->communism. Europe is ahead of the game as they are older and already in socialism.

    Our government is designed to be conservative, so we are moving slowly toward socialism, this is being accepted because it is creeping incrementally, thus people gripe but do not react. China and Russia attempted to bypass some of the steps and have had to backtrack, but we are all on the same path ultimately.

    This being said, I feel when this country reaches socialism and begins to move more toward communist, a revolution will occur. If not, the revolution described by Marx will occur for sure.
    Marx also sealed the fate of his ideology before he wrote it down. In his Thesis (Philosophy of Nature) he says

    Quote Originally Posted by http://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1841/dr-theses/note-iv.htm
    When philosophy turns itself as will against the world of appearance, then the system is lowered to an abstract totality, that is, it has become one aspect of the world which opposes another one. Its relationship to the world is that of reflection. Inspired by the urge to realise itself, it enters into tension against the other. The inner self-contentment and completeness has been broken. What was inner light has become consuming flame turning outwards. The result is that as the world becomes philosophical, philosophy also becomes worldly, that its realisation is also its loss, that what it struggles against on the outside is its own inner deficiency, that in the very struggle it falls precisely into those defects which it fights as defects in the opposite camp, and that it can only overcome these defects by failing into them. That which opposes it and that which it fights is always the same as itself, only with factors inverted.
    This holds the foundation of his ideals that the very essence of a philosophy contains the seed that will sprout it's destruction. However, for some reason he decided his philosophies are exempt.

    His world-view is that of the ethical question promoted before the research was done. He started with the Master-Slave dialectic and excluded all the other causes for the plausible progress of humanity (stage to stage, government to government).

    Marx never lived to see the most powerful anti-revolution (in the Marxian paradigm) tool used by Government and Capitalists thereof. I am talking about Reforms. The concept of Reform instead of Revolution is never really discussed by the Marxian writing.

    It's a wonder why people would think the most intelligent and most creative and most powerful (Capitalists) people ever to grace the Earth, could not keep control. Reforms have allowed them to do so and Reforms will continue to allow them to do so.
    "I do not underestimate the ability of fanatical groups of terrorists to kill and destroy, but they do not threaten the life of the nation. Whether we would survive Hitler hung in the balance, but there is no doubt that we shall survive al-Qa'ida." -- Lord Hoffmann

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    Re: Revolution?

    Not without people dying. Socialism is, after all, about forcing compliance. Can't have that without killing people eventually.
    I disagree, socialism came to Europe without firing a shot. It can be brought about incrementally as in doing so people become ever more complacient. Look at the American people now, they complain constantly about things yet take no action due to action would require effort and we cannot take time away from television and soccer practice.

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    Re: Revolution?

    Quote Originally Posted by Scarecrow Akhbar View Post
    Revolution isn't terrorism son, unless the fools are attacking civillian non-government target and engaging in campaign of petty harassment.
    Haha, so members of the Government are no longer civilians?
    A revolution is going to involve massive numbers of people openly rebelling against the status quo that seeks to enslave them, and it's not going to be effected by dirty little bearded marxist types plotting in dark cellars.
    It's not going to last long, as the armed forces could wipe out any "massive" rebellion in mere hours.

    If the revolution comes to physical blows, it will look more like the civil war.
    No. It will be the United States massacring (what would be called) Rogue States
    "I do not underestimate the ability of fanatical groups of terrorists to kill and destroy, but they do not threaten the life of the nation. Whether we would survive Hitler hung in the balance, but there is no doubt that we shall survive al-Qa'ida." -- Lord Hoffmann

  7. #17
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    Re: Revolution?

    I suspect that in the next 20 years unless something changes we will have one or more of these things happen.

    1. The federal government financialy collapses.
    2. Some states reject the federal government at least in part if not completely.
    3. Full fledge public revolt.

    I would guess a mix of 1 and 2 happening with 3 being very unlikely. As someone said before youth have always mentioned revolting but I feel right now it is not only the young that are angery with our governemt and the out of control spending. All people have a breaking point.

  8. #18
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    Re: Revolution?

    people unsuccessfully revolt all the time.

    I assume the revolution you are talking about is one that is both "successful" and violent? That can only happen if something horrible happens leaving the government crippled and powerless while refusing to accept it is crippled and powerless.

    I voted it will happen, but not in my lifetime.

  9. #19
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    Re: Revolution?

    Quote Originally Posted by Arch Enemy View Post
    Marx also sealed the fate of his ideology before he wrote it down. In his Thesis (Philosophy of Nature) he says



    This holds the foundation of his ideals that the very essence of a philosophy contains the seed that will sprout it's destruction. However, for some reason he decided his philosophies are exempt.

    His world-view is that of the ethical question promoted before the research was done. He started with the Master-Slave dialectic and excluded all the other causes for the plausible progress of humanity (stage to stage, government to government).

    Marx never lived to see the most powerful anti-revolution (in the Marxian paradigm) tool used by Government and Capitalists thereof. I am talking about Reforms. The concept of Reform instead of Revolution is never really discussed by the Marxian writing.

    It's a wonder why people would think the most intelligent and most creative and most powerful (Capitalists) people ever to grace the Earth, could not keep control. Reforms have allowed them to do so and Reforms will continue to allow them to do so.
    Very good post. However, reform be what it may, Capitalists are searching out ever cheaper labor and operating costs, and in doing so are knocking down borders and national barriers. We live in a global economy now. How much longer before the haves and the have nots exist, absent a Middle Class which is under constant attack.

  10. #20
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    Re: Revolution?

    Quote Originally Posted by Scarecrow Akhbar View Post
    Why, do you hate the country that much?



    Socialism kills capitalism, progress, and the human spirit, and makes democracy pointless.



    The final step of any evolutionary process is death. Socialism is death.



    "Greed". You mean people who mind their own business and endorse the concept of personal responsibility.



    Not without people dying. Socialism is, after all, about forcing compliance. Can't have that without killing people eventually.
    Why do you equate socialism with hating the country? I don't hate it. I think it could be made better. I am after all a socialist and am part of a socialist community here.

    Socialism is an evolutionary growth from the death of capitalism. It is a natural occurrence and is where this country needs to go.

    How can you judge Socialism so harshly when in fact there hasn't been a socialistic nation on the planet in modern times.

    What makes you think that socialism does not promote personal responsibility more than social programs in a capitalist society. It fact in a socialist society you need to have a job.

    Socialism is no more a force compliance than capitalism. You like this system because it is the one you learned and have lived with since your youth. That's cool.

    You may want to read up on what socialism really is before you outright knock it or kick it in a ditch. You have stated the capitalist party line in condemnation of socialism. The problem is that you need to have a better picture of socialism then what you have and what most Americans have.
    Democracy is the road to socialism. Karl Marx
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