View Poll Results: What will happen if the Gitmo were transported to jail facilities in the U.S.?

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  • Nothing

    12 50.00%
  • We will be attacked from those detainees

    3 12.50%
  • OMG all hell will break loose because our jail security will suddenly become weaker

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Thread: What Happens To Gitmo Detainees?

  1. #51
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    Re: What Happens To Gitmo Detainees?

    I agree that these combatants are not entitled to be treated as POWs. However, Quirin discusses the treatment which the enemy combatants received through the military:

    Pursuant to direction of the Attorney General, the Federal Bureau of Investigation surrendered custody of petitioners to respondent, Provost Marshal of the Military District of Washington, who was directed by the Secretary of War to receive and keep them in custody, and who thereafter held petitioners for trial before the Commission.

    On July 3, 1942, the Judge Advocate General's Department of the Army prepared and lodged with the Commission the following charges against petitioners, supported by specifications:

    1. Violation of the law of war.

    2. Violation of Article 81 of the Articles of War, defining the offense of relieving or attempting to relieve, or corresponding with or giving intelligence to, the enemy.

    3. Violation of Article 82, defining the offense of spying.

    4. Conspiracy to commit the offenses alleged in charges 1, 2 and 3.
    Were the prisoners at Gitmo given access to the due process of charges filed through the JAG?

  2. #52
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    Re: What Happens To Gitmo Detainees?

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    What were their unlawful actions?

    If you cannot specity a 'crime' then you cannot bring charges.
    Given that no charges were prepared by the JAG to explain their detention as unlawful combatants, these individuals have been held in indefinite limbo, without access to legal counsel, without charges filed, without fair and impartial hearing, and without due process.

    Perhaps the Bush administration should have thought to charge them, in accordance with military law.

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    Re: What Happens To Gitmo Detainees?

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    Ok... and those would be... what?

    If you cannot specity a 'crime' then you cannot bring charges.
    18 USC 2385 --

    Whoever knowingly or willfully advocates, abets, advises, or teaches the duty, necessity, desirability, or propriety of overthrowing or destroying the government of the United States or the government of any State, Territory, District or Possession thereof, or the government of any political subdivision therein, by force or violence, or by the assassination of any officer of any such government; or

    Whoever, with intent to cause the overthrow or destruction of any such government, prints, publishes, edits, issues, circulates, sells, distributes, or publicly displays any written or printed matter advocating, advising, or teaching the duty, necessity, desirability, or propriety of overthrowing or destroying any government in the United States by force or violence, or attempts to do so; or

    Whoever organizes or helps or attempts to organize any society, group, or assembly of persons who teach, advocate, or encourage the overthrow or destruction of any such government by force or violence; or becomes or is a member of, or affiliates with, any such society, group, or assembly of persons, knowing the purposes thereof—

    Shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than twenty years, or both, and shall be ineligible for employment by the United States or any department or agency thereof, for the five years next following his conviction.

    If two or more persons conspire to commit any offense named in this section, each shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than twenty years, or both, and shall be ineligible for employment by the United States or any department or agency thereof, for the five years next following his conviction.

    As used in this section, the terms “organizes” and “organize”, with respect to any society, group, or assembly of persons, include the recruiting of new members, the forming of new units, and the regrouping or expansion of existing clubs, classes, and other units of such society, group, or assembly of persons.
    Twenty years in prison plus five years ineligibility to go to work for Uncle Sam... that'll teach 'em!!
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  4. #54
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    Re: What Happens To Gitmo Detainees?

    *crickets*


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    Re: What Happens To Gitmo Detainees?

    Quote Originally Posted by Catz Part Deux View Post
    Given that no charges were prepared by the JAG to explain their detention as unlawful combatants, these individuals have been held in indefinite limbo, without access to legal counsel, without charges filed, without fair and impartial hearing, and without due process.

    Perhaps the Bush administration should have thought to charge them, in accordance with military law.
    I'll take this as an admission that you have no idea whatseoever what their unlawful actions might have been, and so you have no idea whatsoever with what crimes they might be charged with -- but, somehow, youre SURE that they can be charged with SOMETHING.

    Tell me:
    What makes them "unlawful" combatants?
    Last edited by Goobieman; 05-28-09 at 02:55 PM.

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    Re: What Happens To Gitmo Detainees?

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    I'll take this as an admission that you have no idea whatseoever what their unlawful actions might have been, and so you have no idea whatsoever with what crimes they might be charged with -- but, somehow, youre SURE that they can be charged with SOMETHING.

    Tell me:
    What makes them "unlawful" combatants?
    I think that they should either be charged or released. They were labeled as unlawful combatants by the Bush administration, who then failed to charge them with unlawful acts.

    I find that problematic. They are either POWs (in which case they are subject to the geneva convention), or they are unlawful combatants, in which case they should have been charged by the JAGs and prosected in a military tribunal.

    Neither has been done.

    That doesn't bother you?

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    Re: What Happens To Gitmo Detainees?

    Quote Originally Posted by Catz Part Deux View Post
    I think that they should either be charged or released. They were labeled as unlawful combatants by the Bush administration, who then failed to charge them with unlawful acts.

    I find that problematic. They are either POWs (in which case they are subject to the geneva convention), or they are unlawful combatants, in which case they should have been charged by the JAGs and prosected in a military tribunal.

    Neither has been done.

    That doesn't bother you?
    What bothers me most about it, is that the Bush Administration used the "unlawful combatants" definition to deny them their rights under the 6th Amendment (In all criminal prosecutions, the accused shall enjoy the right to a speedy and public trial...), because a public trial isn't the same as a military tribunal.

    They're either POW's or they're not. If they're not, then charge them and try them - quit holding them in limbo until someone decides what to do with them.
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    Re: What Happens To Gitmo Detainees?

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    be charged with SOMETHING.

    Tell me: What makes them "unlawful" combatants?
    The Supreme Court in Ex Parte Quirin - July 31, 1942

    By universal agreement and practice, the law of war draws a distinction between the armed forces and the peaceful populations of belligerent nations and also between those who are lawful and unlawful combatants. Lawful combatants are subject to capture and detention as prisoners of war by opposing military forces. Unlawful combatants are likewise subject to capture and detention, but in addition they are subject to trial and punishment by military tribunals for acts which render their belligerency unlawful. The spy who secretly and without uniform passes the military lines of a belligerent in time of war, seeking to gather military information and communicate it to the enemy, or an enemy combatant who without uniform comes secretly through the lines for the purpose of waging war by destruction of life or property, are familiar examples of belligerents who are generally deemed not to be entitled to the status of prisoners of war, but to be offenders against the law of war subject to trial and punishment by military tribunals.
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    Re: What Happens To Gitmo Detainees?

    Quote Originally Posted by Catz Part Deux View Post
    I think that they should either be charged or released. They were labeled as unlawful combatants by the Bush administration, who then failed to charge them with unlawful acts.

    I find that problematic. They are either POWs (in which case they are subject to the geneva convention), or they are unlawful combatants, in which case they should have been charged by the JAGs and prosected in a military tribunal.

    Neither has been done.

    That doesn't bother you?
    I dont see how you can argue that they should be charged if you have no idea whatsoever what they should lbe charged with.

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    Re: What Happens To Gitmo Detainees?

    Quote Originally Posted by SpotsCat View Post
    The Supreme Court in Ex Parte Quirin - July 31, 1942
    By universal agreement and practice, the law of war draws a distinction between the armed forces and the peaceful populations of belligerent nations and also between those who are lawful and unlawful combatants.
    The problem here?
    The war isnt between belligerent nations.
    The rules that govern war between belligerent nations therefore do not apply.

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