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Should females be allowed to specialize as infantry in the military?

Should women be allowed to specialize as infantry


  • Total voters
    95
Comparing pushing a baby out and infantry requirements is comparing apples to oranges. Infantry doesn't require a tolerance to severe pain.






If women are not held to the same physical standards as their male counterparts then they should not be in the infantry period. Being a infantryman requires more than just being able to shoot. I seriously doubt most women with the same exact training as their male counterparts could do just as well as their male counterparts. The Army and even Marines have lower standards for females. Maybe it is a cost-benefit analysis as another posted why females are not allowed in the infantry or even combat arms MOSs.

I guess when it comes to women you know it all but can't even understand a simple statement made by one. You made the statement that women can't focus so I used a little humor to make the point we could focus but you didn't get the statement or the humor.

You already have your preconcieved ideas about women so thier isn't much else I can say to you. Once people have a closed mind you cannot have a intelligent discussion with them. They will only spend the time trying to prove they are right and you are wrong and ignore any facts they don't want to hear.

Discussion over.
 
Most men here (and most have never served) seem to imagine modern Combat as Vic Morrow leading his platoon of merry men through Europe circa 1944 with bayonets attached to their single-fire carbines. Most of you don't have a clue how a modern, integrated, and well trained military engages the enemy.

SURVSATS. ELINT. Saturation shelling. Strafing. Drones with real-time video and more sensors than an F-16. GPS keypad gridding. 3-D structure layouts. Laser designators. Wireless laptops. Satellite up/down comm links. Special Forces inserts. Sniper team inserts. Recon team inserts. Spotter aircraft. Thunder runs. Armored spearheads. Chopper support. Close-Air-Support officers. All this before the Infantry even get out of their transports.

Hand-to-hand combat? wtf? :rofl
 
Watching Tashah kick the living hell out of the misogynists never gets old for me.
 
I guess when it comes to women you know it all but can't even understand a simple statement made by one.

I understand your feminist mantra of how women can do it,all the need to do is just shoot good and how no man has ever had to deliver a baby. I have no problem with women in the infantry as long as they can pass the same exact standards as their male counterparts, do exactly everything their male counterparts can do and no special considerations other than separate restrooms and showers.


You made the statement that women can't focus

Where did I say that?

You already have your preconcieved ideas about women so thier isn't much else I can say to you.

Once people have a closed mind you cannot have a intelligent discussion with them. They will only spend the time trying to prove they are right and you are wrong and ignore any facts they don't want to hear.

Discussion over.
My opinion is based on the fact I was a infantry soldier,not some sort of silly little sexist preconceived notions that you think I have. So I have better knowledge and experience than you do with your preconceived notion that all infantrymen have to do is shoot good. I bet you even think the only thing Army snipers have to do is shoot good?


Men and women are not equal in strength and endurance and anyone who tells you otherwise is a ****en moron. If men and women were truly equal in physical strength and endurance then why do does the military have separate physical standards for males and females? IF men and women are equal physically equal they why is there separate sporting events for males and females they have separate sporting events for women? Why is there NBA and WNBA ,why is even something such as golf which is not a real sport in the first place have mens golf and women's golf.
 
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Watching Tashah kick the living hell out of the misogynists never gets old for me.

I do not think there is anyone here who has a hatred or severe mistrust of women and how exactly does mumbling or ranting about Vic Morrow(who the ****en hell is Vic Morrow?) and some other nonsense kick the living hell out of anyone?
 
Men and women are not equal in strength and endurance and anyone who tells you otherwise is a ****en moron. If men and women were truly equal in physical strength and endurance then why do does the military have separate physical standards for males and females? IF men and women are equal physically equal they why is there separate sporting events for males and females they have separate sporting events for women? Why is there NBA and WNBA ,why is even something such as golf which is not a real sport in the first place have mens golf and women's golf.
This is sooo much bs. Most infantry utilize Humvees these days. I was embedded with Infantry forces in three different campaigns. Not only worked with them, but I had to be either on or near the point at all times.

Your version of the military is so outdated it reeks. Get with it soldier boy.
 
Most men here (and most have never served) seem to imagine modern Combat as Vic Morrow leading his platoon of merry men through Europe circa 1944 with bayonets attached to their single-fire carbines. Most of you don't have a clue how a modern, integrated, and well trained military engages the enemy.

SURVSATS. ELINT. Saturation shelling. Strafing. Drones with real-time video and more sensors than an F-16. GPS keypad gridding. 3-D structure layouts. Laser designators. Wireless laptops. Satellite up/down comm links. Special Forces inserts. Sniper team inserts. Recon team inserts. Spotter aircraft. Thunder runs. Armored spearheads. Chopper support. Close-Air-Support officers. All this before the Infantry even get out of their transports.

Hand-to-hand combat? wtf? :rofl

The grunts still get down and dirty, trust me.
 
This is sooo much bs. Most infantry utilize Humvees these days. I was embedded with Infantry forces in three different campaigns. Not only worked with them, but I had to be either on or near the point at all times.

What are the physical standards for males and females in the Israel? I am pretty sure the Israeli Army and the US army are different.

Your version of the military is so outdated it reeks. Get with it soldier boy.

I have been out the Army since 2003 so I find hard to believe that things have changed that much for infantry.
 
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Most men here (and most have never served) seem to imagine modern Combat as Vic Morrow leading his platoon of merry men through Europe circa 1944 with bayonets attached to their single-fire carbines. Most of you don't have a clue how a modern, integrated, and well trained military engages the enemy.

SURVSATS. ELINT. Saturation shelling. Strafing. Drones with real-time video and more sensors than an F-16. GPS keypad gridding. 3-D structure layouts. Laser designators. Wireless laptops. Satellite up/down comm links. Special Forces inserts. Sniper team inserts. Recon team inserts. Spotter aircraft. Thunder runs. Armored spearheads. Chopper support. Close-Air-Support officers. All this before the Infantry even get out of their transports.

Hand-to-hand combat? wtf? :rofl

And yet terrorist with 1950's technology keep winning out in the long run against modern army's.

Go figure.
 
I have been out the Army since 2003 so I find hard to believe that things have changed that much for infantry.

You would be surprised. They now have "time out" cards for "stressed" people in basic training. They run in t-shirts and shorts, oh man it is weak.

The military is so pussified (training wise) compared to when I or even you were in.
 
This is sooo much bs. Most infantry utilize Humvees these days. I was embedded with Infantry forces in three different campaigns. Not only worked with them, but I had to be either on or near the point at all times.

Your version of the military is so outdated it reeks. Get with it soldier boy.

Now lets throw that same group into Korea or Vietnam.

We are not always fighting in a Nice flat desert. We are not Israel, we have a much larger back yard.
 
This is sooo much bs. Most infantry utilize Humvees these days. I was embedded with Infantry forces in three different campaigns. Not only worked with them, but I had to be either on or near the point at all times.

Your version of the military is so outdated it reeks. Get with it soldier boy.

I'm currently an active duty soldier and the idea of women in the infantry is ****ing stupid. Just because you ran convoys doesn't mean you know what the hell you're talking about.
 
Most men here (and most have never served) seem to imagine modern Combat as Vic Morrow leading his platoon of merry men through Europe circa 1944 with bayonets attached to their single-fire carbines. Most of you don't have a clue how a modern, integrated, and well trained military engages the enemy.

SURVSATS. ELINT. Saturation shelling. Strafing. Drones with real-time video and more sensors than an F-16. GPS keypad gridding. 3-D structure layouts. Laser designators. Wireless laptops. Satellite up/down comm links. Special Forces inserts. Sniper team inserts. Recon team inserts. Spotter aircraft. Thunder runs. Armored spearheads. Chopper support. Close-Air-Support officers. All this before the Infantry even get out of their transports.

Hand-to-hand combat? wtf? :rofl

Your are absoulutely right. Most men commenting on the subject of the military have never been in the military but being men they know all abut it. lol. I like your statement that they think everyone in the military is some dude with big muscles with a big gun like GI Joe. My husband is retired from the Navy and I have really never seen these muscle bound guys not even in the Marines.

I served in the Navy and National Guard a long time ago but even then as a woman I had to carry my own weight and do my job with no help form the men. Actually most men in the military back then and now don't appreciate women in the military so you always had do prove you could do your job or else.

I worked in the field along side the men in the National Guard doing exactly the same job they did. No one evey lifted a hand to help me nor would I have wanted them to. it was frowned on by everyone if you couldn't do your job without help from someone else.

I had to laugh because I only weighed 120 pounds at the time but I saw a few overweight out of shape guys who were having a hard time doing their jobs and got called on the carpet for it but I never had a complaint against me.
 
Your are absoulutely right. Most men commenting on the subject of the military have never been in the military but being men they know all abut it. lol.

8 years RA, 4 Years Illinois NG.

Sorry your comment is false, many military men are commenting and completely disagree.

I like your statement that they think everyone in the military is some dude with big muscles with a big gun like GI Joe. My husband is retired from the Navy and I have really never seen these muscle bound guys not even in the Marines.

This is pretty much nothing but speculation at best.

Tell me what I am thinking now? ;)

I served in the Navy and National Guard a long time ago but even then as a woman I had to carry my own weight and do my job with no help form the men. Actually most men in the military back then and now don't appreciate women in the military so you always had do prove you could do your job or else.

I worked in the field along side the men in the National Guard doing exactly the same job they did. No one evey lifted a hand to help me nor would I have wanted them to. it was frowned on by everyone if you couldn't do your job without help from someone else.

I had to laugh because I only weighed 120 pounds at the time but I saw a few overweight out of shape guys who were having a hard time doing their jobs and got called on the carpet for it but I never had a complaint against me.

What exactly was your job or MOS?
 
Your are absoulutely right. Most men commenting on the subject of the military have never been in the military but being men they know all abut it.

It seems the last few pages at least that most of us men who are commenting have been in the military some of us who actually have experience as infantry soldiers

lol. I like your statement that they think everyone in the military is some dude with big muscles with a big gun like GI Joe.
My husband is retired from the Navy and I have really never seen these muscle bound guys not even in the Marines.

I didn't say **** about the rest of the military and the topic is not about the rest of the military.The topic is infantry. No one said **** about being muscle bound either.


I served in the Navy and National Guard a long time ago but even then as a woman I had to carry my own weight and do my job with no help form the men. Actually most men in the military back then and now don't appreciate women in the military so you always had do prove you could do your job or else.
I worked in the field along side the men in the National Guard doing exactly the same job they did. No one evey lifted a hand to help me nor would I have wanted them to. it was frowned on by everyone if you couldn't do your job without help from someone else.

I had to laugh because I only weighed 120 pounds at the time but I saw a few overweight out of shape guys who were having a hard time doing their jobs and got called on the carpet for it but I never had a complaint against me.


What was your MOS in the national guard? I know since you are a female it wasn't 11B,11m,11H, or 11C.
 
We are not always fighting in a Nice flat desert. We are not Israel, we have a much larger back yard.
Doesnt matter where you are. The doctrine is the same. Intelligence, speed, mobility, and power projection. This notion of manly endurance and hiking through the countryside is total bs. Virtually all modern Infantry are mounted. Humvees and trucks or chopper ferries. You're gonna get your ass chewed up in anyone's back yard moving and fighting in slo-mo.
 
You're gonna get your ass chewed up in anyone's back yard moving and fighting in slo-mo.
This is precisely what happened in Iraq. The US military abandoned its doctrines when it morphed from an invasion force (magnificent) to an occupation force. Modern militaries are not trained to occupy and doing so puts them at a distinct disadvantage. This holds true anywhere in the word.

And to Blackdog... your unfamiliarity with the terrain of Israel is quite remarkable.

Nice flat desert? :rofl
 
http://www.debatepolitics.com/break...nsiders-lifting-combat-ban-female-troops.html

That is the discussion that has given birth to this particular poll.

I want to be clear with the question here. I am asking if you think females should be allowed to serve as infantrymen(persons?) in the military. That means, they are not a cook or aircraft mechanic who has some basic infantry skills gleaned from either boot camp, or extra infantry training like the Marines put all personnell though.

What we are asking is if you think women should be allowed to be grunts.

NOT a good idea. Unless your goal is to provide the Enemy with massively inflated casualty Lists,,,and P.O.W's they'd really ENJOY "taking care of".:roll:
 
The average infantry man lugs around anywhere between eighty and a hundred pounds of equipment. That's double the amount they carried in WW2 and Vietnam. I'm sorry, I know this topic causes some kind of ultra-feministic uproar but the simple biological fact is that most women aren't capable of that type of endurance. Some are, yes, but most simply aren't. I mean, if they DO somehow manage to get into hand-to-hand combat against a well-trained foe what is a woman going to do? Hope and pray he doesn't hit her?
 
Doesnt matter where you are. The doctrine is the same. Intelligence, speed, mobility, and power projection. This notion of manly endurance and hiking through the countryside is total bs. Virtually all modern Infantry are mounted. Humvees and trucks or chopper ferries. You're gonna get your ass chewed up in anyone's back yard moving and fighting in slo-mo.

Then why did you leave out Korea and Vietnam? Why cut out the first part of my post? Why don't you want to acknowledge that combat is affected by the terrain and it is not us that dictates the speed or mobility?

The doctrine is not the same at all. Let's try speed and mobility in the mountains or heavy jungle. :roll:
 
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This is precisely what happened in Iraq. The US military abandoned its doctrines when it morphed from an invasion force (magnificent) to an occupation force. Modern militaries are not trained to occupy and doing so puts them at a distinct disadvantage. This holds true anywhere in the word.

This is true but it has very little bearing on the discussion.

And to Blackdog... your unfamiliarity with the terrain of Israel is quite remarkable.

Nice flat desert? :rofl

I don't live there and have never been there. I am not concerned with Israel's geography, so why would would that be remarkable?

Anyway...

Females should not be in combat arms for anything other than a support role, period.

No one to date has offered any evidence to say otherwise. Although they are high on emotion and speculation.
 
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I'm currently an active duty soldier and the idea of women in the infantry is ****ing stupid. Just because you ran convoys doesn't mean you know what the hell you're talking about.

Although I may disagree with Tashah on certain aspects of this issue, I would never be so silly as to suggest that she doesn't know what the hell she's talking about. She most certainly does.
 
Doesnt matter where you are. The doctrine is the same. Intelligence, speed, mobility, and power projection. This notion of manly endurance and hiking through the countryside is total bs. Virtually all modern Infantry are mounted. Humvees and trucks or chopper ferries. You're gonna get your ass chewed up in anyone's back yard moving and fighting in slo-mo.

Tashah, if you are suggesting that modern combat operations do not require a substantial amount of physical and mental endurance then you are totally mistaken.

My first five days in Ramadi I probably slept a total of 12-15 hours. It was nonstop patrolling, building, and standing post. I was having mild hallucinations by the last night.
 
Females should not be in combat arms for anything other than a support role, period.
What about fully-combat units that only engage in quick assaults/operations?
It seems to me that you only have a problem with sending females to the units that are required to stay in the battlefield and survive through harsh conditions.
 
Although I may disagree with Tashah on certain aspects of this issue, I would never be so silly as to suggest that she doesn't know what the hell she's talking about. She most certainly does.
If she advocates putting women in infantry units, she doesn't know what the hell she's talking about. Period.
 
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