View Poll Results: Should women be allowed to specialize as infantry

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  • Yes, and they should be integrated with the males

    101 57.71%
  • Yes, but keep their units seperate from male units

    16 9.14%
  • No, but women should be given some basic infantry skills beyond basic training

    33 18.86%
  • No, women should never serve in a role where they may encounter combat

    15 8.57%
  • Other....

    10 5.71%
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Thread: Should females be allowed to specialize as infantry in the military?

  1. #821
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    Re: Should females be allowed to specialize as infantry in the military?

    Quote Originally Posted by 1069 View Post
    If teenage boys can handle it, so can grown women.
    You're saying an average grown woman is a physical match for a fit 19 year-old man?

    I'm sure some are. But you're saying this as though it's axiomatic.
    It's not "tolerance" if you already approve of what you purport to "tolerate."

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    Re: Should females be allowed to specialize as infantry in the military?

    Quote Originally Posted by 1069 View Post
    If teenage boys can handle it, so can grown women.
    Um...no they cannot. Most women can barely negotiate the Marine Corps Obstacle Course....once through. Some not at all. They do not possess the strength for some of it and are instructed to just go around. Some cry. The Marine Corps had great difficulty with combat training when it mixed women in with the men. If they couldn't keep up with the standard that men do, then how are they supposed to be 0300s?

    And I'll tell right now...every single man negotiates the Marine Corps Obstacle Course.

    Quote Originally Posted by 1069 View Post
    Oh, like it's not dangerous as long as women stay away. Right.
    Well, gee 1069. I'm trying to exercise a bit of common sense here with you. Do me the favor and return it. Women that cannot handle the rigors of combat with a true infantry unit on the move would be a hinderance. This would endanger the men who now have to dedicate a certain focus away from the enemy and towards the women. And if that woman had trouble or simply could not negotiate the Marine Corps Obstacle Course in training? I guess as long as female civilians back home get to feel that they are "equal" nothing else matters?


    Quote Originally Posted by 1069 View Post
    Not for much longer anyway, one would devoutly hope.
    Not with Obama at the helm.
    Obama is not stupid. If he does anything it will be focused on what the Marine Corps is already considering........."A screening process for those who stand out from the pack." And keep in mind....being in the infantry and being an 0300 are two different things. If women are allowed to come and go into the infantry like the men, then it will be the males that are burdened because they will have to be the ones repeatedly executing the rigorous demands while the females hold the fort. And in a unit where the numbers are 18, if 6 of those are unable to perform at a man's pace, then it will cause disruption and dissention amongst the ranks. I'll give you an example:

    There's a rope in front of us. Somebody has to climb it. The women are automatically counted out because none of them can climb it leaving the dwindled numbers to the samew selct men over and over again. What do you think that will do to the moral of the unit? To the comraderie?

    This is not about "women's rights." This is about making the strongest infantry you can.

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    Re: Should females be allowed to specialize as infantry in the military?

    Quote Originally Posted by smartaleck View Post
    I agree with Redress. The only thing I have heard over and over again on this forum is that women can't physically carry 80 pounds on their backs for long distances and I don't think you can get around that fact but women have faught in the Israel army in combat positons for years. In fact we had a woman who was recently on this forum explain what she did in combat and proof she was perfectly capable of killing when called on.

    During WW2 women were called from their homes and children to work in amunition factories because not enough men to do the job because they were all away fighting the war. As soon as the men came back the women had to go back home to be homemakers again.

    Israel is no different when they didn't have enough men to protect thier country then women were called into combat positions.

    Right now our guys in the infantry and other front line positions are being used over and over again with a high cost to their families and their mental health. If the men in this country won't step forward them maybe the women will.
    You have to recognize that Israel's army is stationary. They are tasked with grand assaults across nations, tasked with hitting beaches, and deployed throughout the world in rigorous environments that are even tough for the men. If our military stayed put and our infantry patrolled our borders and manned positions, then women in our infantry would be a simple thing.

    But we do not do this. We hike though the mountains of Afghanistan because our vehicles can not go. We hike up cold mountainous environments to train for altitude and cold weather with these 80 pound packs (for a radio operator, these packs are 120 pounds by the way). In urban terrain we have to climb walls and launch through windows. Only the few women could endure.

    There is a reason the Olympics show a seperation between the Men's and Women's events. There is a certain standard for the men. Very few women could compete with them. If this is true for sporting events where a medal is at stake, why on earth do women think that the military should be open and "fair" when lives are the price of substandards?
    Last edited by MSgt; 08-09-09 at 09:52 PM.

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    Re: Should females be allowed to specialize as infantry in the military?

    Quote Originally Posted by GySgt View Post
    Allow me to quote what I stated....

    "This is not to suggest that it should be an all male club. On the contrary, there are the few women that could do this. But we are talking about a screening process, not an open door."

    Girl power and equality for the "little woman that can" has no place in this topic. In 17 years, I have seen 1 woman possibly capable of being an 0300. (And I believe she was a lesbian, but that's not the point). She would define the exception from the group.

    But what I find ironic is that no woman in uniform actively wishes to be a grunt. The only ones that seem to complain about it are female politicians, who would never lower themselves to military service in the first place, and civilians.
    I included that in my quote of you to be sure to not take you out of context, but your initial arguments have been made, time and again, and time and again have proven false.

    Speaking of false, this idea that no women in the military would want to be a "grunt" is false as well. I have stated it is probably not common, but to say that none want it is obviously false.

    By the way, I am not a politician, and I am a veteran.

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    Re: Should females be allowed to specialize as infantry in the military?

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    I included that in my quote of you to be sure to not take you out of context, but your initial arguments have been made, time and again, and time and again have proven false.
    Please point out what evidence has been put forth to prove him false? I can show you plenty that says the reverse.

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    Speaking of false, this idea that no women in the military would want to be a "grunt" is false as well. I have stated it is probably not common, but to say that none want it is obviously false.
    That 1/10 of 1% is not worth it to the US military as only 20% overall is female. As I stated before females make up 51.9% of the US population according to the 2000 census. So the numbers speak for themselves.

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    By the way, I am not a politician, and I am a veteran.
    Thank you for your sevice.

    Lets face it. The Navy does not do much in the way of ground combat.
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    Re: Should females be allowed to specialize as infantry in the military?

    If women can handle the physical rigors of service, of course. I think it would take an exceptional woman to do it, but if they can meet the standard, why not?

    As for the feasibility of having women in combat arms branches, I read a book a while back, but I forget the name now. The gist of the book was about Mexican drug cartels somehow starting a war with the United States, but one of the side stories is about how the armed forces were putting women in combat arms roles. They begin the program by putting qualified officers in command as platoon leaders and having them there for a certain amount of time before introducing enlisted females to get the other men in the platoon used to the idea of serving with females. It seems like a good idea to me.
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    Re: Should females be allowed to specialize as infantry in the military?

    Quote Originally Posted by Harshaw View Post
    You're saying an average grown woman is a physical match for a fit 19 year-old man?

    I'm sure some are. But you're saying this as though it's axiomatic.
    Delusional feminist crack me up.
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  8. #828
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    Re: Should females be allowed to specialize as infantry in the military?

    Quote Originally Posted by Realist1 View Post
    I never Served with Women, while Overseas. They weren't allowed at the Front...
    Then you've absolutely no basis for your comments regarding whether or not they are poor combat soldiers.

    I've NEVER raised my hands against a Woman. Have you?
    This reinforces the fact that you are truly ignorant of the subject then and simply putting forth your personal opinion. For which you have no real experience to draw upon. This is good for all of our readers to know so that they can have a reference point from which to further judge your posts.

    I have served with female MP's and police officers for years. During that time I have had to rely upon them for backup in armed confrontations and fist fights. Just like men, you know who you can count on and who you can't. There have been several women that I know that could very easily hurt a man in a fist fight, take them down and kick the **** out of them. Conversely, I have known many men who personify the term "pussy" and I wouldn't have them backing me up if they were the last resort because I would feel the need to watch out for them and know full well they couldn't or wouldn't do the same for me. They would be a liability to me.

    I have had to fight women in the execution of my job duties. I have also trained with women in mixed martial arts. If you would NEVER raise your hand against a woman then are certainly not what you seem to be holding yourself out to be. Someone like you would get your fellow troops killed because you would refrain from violence against a woman. Why is that? Because they are frail and inferior beings who need protecting? Or is it that you feel they really aren't a threat to a man? I'm curious, warrior.

    So, would you really never raise your hand against a woman?

    And I've made sure my Wife is a crack shot.
    So she is very capable of utilizing a weapon to kill a threat, just like a man.

    I don't believe Women belong in a ground pounding War.
    Fine.
    Unless you're in a "Last Stand" situation,,,neither should you.
    Why? You've yet to actually explain a valid reason women should not be utilized to fight where necessary. I mean other than your description that they are weak and very poor in physical combat performance. Neither of which you can actually back up with any honest argument.
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  9. #829
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    Re: Should females be allowed to specialize as infantry in the military?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lerxst View Post
    Then you've absolutely no basis for your comments regarding whether or not they are poor combat soldiers.

    Other than Common Sense, no Lerst. We never tried to ladden down a Woman with all the gear and ammo, 60-80+ pounds she'd need to make a standard Patrol,,,ask her to march thru miles of jungle terrain,,,and back to Base. In fact, I never even thought about trying it.

    This reinforces the fact that you are truly ignorant of the subject then and simply putting forth your personal opinion. For which you have no real experience to draw upon. This is good for all of our readers to know so that they can have a reference point from which to further judge your posts.

    Yes Lerxst,,,it's my Personal Opinion. I'm sure all "Our Readers" are aware of that.

    I have served with female MP's and police officers for years. During that time I have had to rely upon them for backup in armed confrontations and fist fights. Just like men, you know who you can count on and who you can't. There have been several women that I know that could very easily hurt a man in a fist fight, take them down and kick the **** out of them. Conversely, I have known many men who personify the term "pussy" and I wouldn't have them backing me up if they were the last resort because I would feel the need to watch out for them and know full well they couldn't or wouldn't do the same for me. They would be a liability to me.

    I have had to fight women in the execution of my job duties. I have also trained with women in mixed martial arts. If you would NEVER raise your hand against a woman then are certainly not what you seem to be holding yourself out to be. Someone like you would get your fellow troops killed because you would refrain from violence against a woman. Why is that? Because they are frail and inferior beings who need protecting? Or is it that you feel they really aren't a threat to a man? I'm curious, warrior.

    So, would you really never raise your hand against a woman?

    So far Lerxst,,,I've managed to avoid hitting a Woman. With any luck,,,I won't have to. And no, if the situation called for it, I'd take down a Woman to defend myself and Family. I'm no longer in the Service.

    She is very capable of utilizing a weapon to kill a threat, just like a man.


    Fine.

    Why? You've yet to actually explain a valid reason women should not be utilized to fight where necessary. I mean other than your description that they are weak and very poor in physical combat performance. Neither of which you can actually back up with any honest argument.
    You mean,,,a valid reason that YOU find acceptable Lerxst. That's not of my concern.

  10. #830
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    Re: Should females be allowed to specialize as infantry in the military?

    Quote Originally Posted by Realist1 View Post
    You mean,,,a valid reason that YOU find acceptable Lerxst. That's not of my concern.
    I have been very clear in what I am seeking. You've not provided a valid reason period. You've also failed to actually answer my questions.

    Why is that I wonder?
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