View Poll Results: Should women be allowed to specialize as infantry

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  • Yes, and they should be integrated with the males

    101 57.71%
  • Yes, but keep their units seperate from male units

    16 9.14%
  • No, but women should be given some basic infantry skills beyond basic training

    33 18.86%
  • No, women should never serve in a role where they may encounter combat

    15 8.57%
  • Other....

    10 5.71%
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Thread: Should females be allowed to specialize as infantry in the military?

  1. #811
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    Re: Should females be allowed to specialize as infantry in the military?

    Quote Originally Posted by GySgt View Post
    This is an aspect I didn't touch on. While there are the very real exceptions among the female gender that could stand the toughness of being an 0300, the natural aggression and strength to endure hand-to-hand combat is another matter.
    No one is suggesting that every woman, or even most women, are capable of being infantry. Nor is every, or even most men. However, those who can should be allowed.

    I think people very easily lose sight of what they are asking for or arguing about. This isn't a game. We are in a club unlike all others. "Fairness" is rarely a goal. If it were, then the handicapped, the obese, the weak, and the elderly would all have representation. Either we have the fairest military or we have the strongest military. This is not to suggest that it should be an all male club. On the contrary, there are the few women that could do this. But we are talking about a screening process, not an open door.
    This same argument has been used for the last 100 years at least, to argue against most every change to the military. It was used to explain why women should not serve in the military, why gays should not, why blacks should not. It was used to explain why women should be limited to certain roles. Every single time, it turned out to be false.

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    Re: Should females be allowed to specialize as infantry in the military?

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    No one is suggesting that every woman, or even most women, are capable of being infantry. Nor is every, or even most men. However, those who can should be allowed.



    This same argument has been used for the last 100 years at least, to argue against most every change to the military. It was used to explain why women should not serve in the military, why gays should not, why blacks should not. It was used to explain why women should be limited to certain roles. Every single time, it turned out to be false.
    Except this time. Really, they're serious this time. Trust them.

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    Re: Should females be allowed to specialize as infantry in the military?

    "Should females be allowed too...."

    We're still saying that in this day and age?
    "If religious instruction were not allowed until the child had attained the age of reason, we would be living in quite a different world" - Christopher Hitchens
    > Good to be back, but I'm only visiting for a few weeks. <

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    Re: Should females be allowed to specialize as infantry in the military?

    The contradictory nature of the arguments against women serving in the infantry should make it obvious to all that the arguments aren't valid:

    "Women aren't strong enough to serve in the infantry, they're inferior."

    "No, women are too essential to serve in the infantry. They're more vital to society than males, we can't risk them!"

    When a group of people is simultaneously considered too good and too bad to do something, chances are there's no valid reason not to let them go for it; just a lot of invalid excuses.

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    Re: Should females be allowed to specialize as infantry in the military?

    Quote Originally Posted by 1069 View Post
    The contradictory nature of the arguments against women serving in the infantry should make it obvious to all that the arguments aren't valid:

    "Women aren't strong enough to serve in the infantry, they're inferior."

    "No, women are too essential to serve in the infantry. They're more vital to society than males, we can't risk them!"

    When a group of people is simultaneously considered too good and too bad to do something, chances are there's no valid reason not to let them go for it; just a lot of invalid excuses.
    I've already expressed my reasons. They're valid, and real. Women in Hand to Hand Combat with Men will end up in Body-Bags. If,,,they're Lucky.

    That's Reality. If that offends some of you, tough.


    Take care all.

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    Re: Should females be allowed to specialize as infantry in the military?

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackdog View Post
    Actually the biggest thing holding them back is that the majority of females are not physically up to the rigors of front line combat. Some are, but in truth the vast majority are not.
    I agree with Redress. The only thing I have heard over and over again on this forum is that women can't physically carry 80 pounds on their backs for long distances and I don't think you can get around that fact but women have faught in the Israel army in combat positons for years. In fact we had a woman who was recently on this forum explain what she did in combat and proof she was perfectly capable of killing when called on.

    During WW2 women were called from their homes and children to work in amunition factories because not enough men to do the job because they were all away fighting the war. As soon as the men came back the women had to go back home to be homemakers again.

    Israel is no different when they didn't have enough men to protect thier country then women were called into combat positions.

    Right now our guys in the infantry and other front line positions are being used over and over again with a high cost to their families and their mental health. If the men in this country won't step forward them maybe the women will.

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    Re: Should females be allowed to specialize as infantry in the military?

    Quote Originally Posted by 1069 View Post
    Today, all arguments against women working in traditionally male fields sound ridiculously outmoded and pathetically lame.

    I can't believe I'm hearing them now, in reference to the US military.
    That's because you are secretly Scary Spice and full of girl power.

    There are two sides of this argument that are extreme and completely avoid truths. You are seeing argument that demands to place women on a pedestal and define them as too delicate and important to risk to combat. However, you are arguing that girl power demands that she lace her boots up and charge the beachhead.

    The fact is that most women simply could not handle being an American 0300. It is dangerous to them and to the men. Eventually I believe we will see a screening process that will allow the exceptions into the field. But an open door into the infantry for any woman like it is for any man will weaken our infantry, especially in the Marine Corps.

    The military is not a corporation downtown. It is not a political party. It is not the Boy Scouts. This is not a case where "tradition" keeps the chicks out.

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    Re: Should females be allowed to specialize as infantry in the military?

    That's because you are secretly Scary Spice and full of girl power.

    There are two sides of this argument that are extreme and completely avoid truths. You are seeing argument that demands to place women on a pedestal and define them as too delicate and important to risk to combat. However, you are arguing that girl power demands that she lace her boots up and charge the beachhead.
    I have no idea what you're getting at.

    The fact is that most women simply could not handle being an American 0300.
    If teenage boys can handle it, so can grown women.

    It is dangerous to them and to the men.
    Oh, like it's not dangerous as long as women stay away. Right.

    This is not a case where "tradition" keeps the chicks out.
    Not for much longer anyway, one would devoutly hope.
    Not with Obama at the helm.

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    Re: Should females be allowed to specialize as infantry in the military?

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    This same argument has been used for the last 100 years at least, to argue against most every change to the military. It was used to explain why women should not serve in the military, why gays should not, why blacks should not. It was used to explain why women should be limited to certain roles. Every single time, it turned out to be false.
    Allow me to quote what I stated....

    "This is not to suggest that it should be an all male club. On the contrary, there are the few women that could do this. But we are talking about a screening process, not an open door."

    Girl power and equality for the "little woman that can" has no place in this topic. In 17 years, I have seen 1 woman possibly capable of being an 0300. (And I believe she was a lesbian, but that's not the point). She would define the exception from the group.

    But what I find ironic is that no woman in uniform actively wishes to be a grunt. The only ones that seem to complain about it are female politicians, who would never lower themselves to military service in the first place, and civilians.

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    Re: Should females be allowed to specialize as infantry in the military?

    Quote Originally Posted by smartaleck View Post
    I agree with Redress. The only thing I have heard over and over again on this forum is that women can't physically carry 80 pounds on their backs for long distances and I don't think you can get around that fact but women have faught in the Israel army in combat positons for years. In fact we had a woman who was recently on this forum explain what she did in combat and proof she was perfectly capable of killing when called on.
    Yes she was on patrol in a vheicle, most combat is not done this way.

    The ability to kill has little or nothing to do with my argument.

    It is the fact roughly 90% of females cannot meet the minimum standards needed for the modern combat arms solider, period.

    Quote Originally Posted by smartaleck View Post
    During WW2 women were called from their homes and children to work in amunition factories because not enough men to do the job because they were all away fighting the war. As soon as the men came back the women had to go back home to be homemakers again.
    Fallacy. Has nothing at all to do with my argument or anyone else's for that matter.

    Quote Originally Posted by smartaleck View Post
    Israel is no different when they didn't have enough men to protect thier country then women were called into combat positions.
    And they learned there lesson as to this day females are not allowed into infantry, armor or artillery units.

    Quote Originally Posted by smartaleck View Post
    Right now our guys in the infantry and other front line positions are being used over and over again with a high cost to their families and their mental health. If the men in this country won't step forward them maybe the women will.
    Females make up 20% of the total combined military. since females outnumber males in this country by about 1.9% according to the 2000 census. It does not look like much "stepping up" is going on now does it?
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