View Poll Results: Should women be allowed to specialize as infantry

Voters
175. You may not vote on this poll
  • Yes, and they should be integrated with the males

    101 57.71%
  • Yes, but keep their units seperate from male units

    16 9.14%
  • No, but women should be given some basic infantry skills beyond basic training

    33 18.86%
  • No, women should never serve in a role where they may encounter combat

    15 8.57%
  • Other....

    10 5.71%
Page 81 of 88 FirstFirst ... 31717980818283 ... LastLast
Results 801 to 810 of 877

Thread: Should females be allowed to specialize as infantry in the military?

  1. #801
    Banned
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    Chicago
    Last Seen
    04-02-15 @ 06:08 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian
    Posts
    8,211

    Re: Should females be allowed to specialize as infantry in the military?

    Quote Originally Posted by 1069 View Post
    Perhaps, rather than penalize women by forbidding them jobs they're qualified for and want to do, men could be held to a certain standard of behavior, and made accountable for gross violations of said standard.
    Do you know what the fog of war is? It's both figurative and literal, at least, in my opinion. The literal aspect refers to the unknown elements of warfare; the uncertainty, the ambiguity, whereas the figurative aspect (and this is my opinion) refers to the madness that results from war. Things happen strangely in war zones and not everything is what it seems. I know it's easy to box it in and classify every situation or eventuality with some kind of criteria, but that's never how it works in reality. Not justifying anything, but that's how things are sometimes.

    In my humble, humble opinion, it boils down to a simple risk vs. reward scenario.

    Reward: The numerical insignificance of females potentially capable of infantry service severely limits the reward inherent to such a policy.

    Risk: Introducing the added element of human sexuality into combat units.

    The choice is obvious.


    "The great uncertainty of all data in war is a peculiar difficulty, because all action must, to a certain extent, be planned in a mere twilight, which in addition not infrequently like the effect of a fog or moonshine gives to things exaggerated dimensions and unnatural appearance."
    -- Carl von Clausewitz

    After all, there are plenty of women in war zones.
    If men's behavior is too "un-nice" to allow female soldiers to share the battlefield with them, then is it really appropriate to allow them around female civilians and their children and elderly?
    Children and the elderly die all the time in wars. That's why we should try to avoid wars as much as possible.

  2. #802
    Banned
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Last Seen
    10-26-10 @ 06:34 PM
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    24,978

    Re: Should females be allowed to specialize as infantry in the military?

    Quote Originally Posted by Realist1 View Post
    Look,,,I think Women do an outstanding job as Pilots. I'm reasonably certain that they aready Serve in Combat right now. I've no qualms with that. I'm not sure just what their role is limited to in the Army. Possibly,,,they'd make great Tankers. What I don't want is the women being utilized in Infantry.

    That's due to my personal feelings on what would happen to them in Hand to Hand Combat. And Men like me would pay more attention to them (worried over their Safety) more than myself.

    I'm pretty sure most the Men would feel the same way.
    Well, that makes a little more sense.
    At least you're no longer laughing.
    But still, you surely recognize that this is a problem with men, not with women... and that we ultimately will not be able to forbid women opportunities that men have- opportunities that some women, however small a number, want and are qualified for- solely on the grounds that men might not be able to remain professional with females around.

    These same arguments were made when women wanted to be firefighters, police officers, every job. Up until the 60s, women were largely constrained to being nurses, teachers, and secretaries, because it was believed that men might not be able to handle them being anything else.
    But today women work in nearly every field, and men now appear to be handling it just fine.
    it only took some getting used to.
    Last edited by 1069; 08-09-09 at 06:31 PM.

  3. #803
    Liberal Fascist For Life!


    Redress's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Georgia
    Last Seen
    Today @ 03:02 AM
    Lean
    Very Liberal
    Posts
    93,285
    Blog Entries
    2

    Re: Should females be allowed to specialize as infantry in the military?

    Quote Originally Posted by 1069 View Post
    Well, that makes a little more sense.
    At least you're no longer laughing.
    But still, you surely recognize that this is a problem with men, not with women... and that we ultimately will not be able to forbid women opportunities that men have- opportunities that some women, however small a number, want and are qualified for- because men might not be able to remain professional with females around.

    These same arguments were made when women wanted to be firefighters, police officers, every job. Up until the 60s, women were largely constrained to being nurses, teachers, and secretaries, because it was believed that men might not be able to handle them being anything else.
    But today women work in nearly every field, and men now appear to be handling it just fine.
    it only took some getting used to.
    Actually, with the military, fairness is not guaranteed, and if the problem with men is not overcomable, then women should be banned from infantry. However, history has shown that outdated attitudes held by people in the military can and will be overcome.

  4. #804
    Banned
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    Chicago
    Last Seen
    04-02-15 @ 06:08 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian
    Posts
    8,211

    Re: Should females be allowed to specialize as infantry in the military?

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    Actually, with the military, fairness is not guaranteed, and if the problem with men is not overcomable, then women should be banned from infantry. However, history has shown that outdated attitudes held by people in the military can and will be overcome.
    Nothing outdated about it, friend. Just because we live in modern times doesn't mean you can make warfare "modern". It will always turn people into animals...that's why war is terrible.

  5. #805
    Advisor Realist1's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    Virginia
    Last Seen
    11-27-09 @ 09:15 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    537

    Re: Should females be allowed to specialize as infantry in the military?

    Quote Originally Posted by 1069 View Post
    Well, that makes a little more sense.
    At least you're no longer laughing.
    But still, you surely recognize that this is a problem with men, not with women... and that we ultimately will not be able to forbid women opportunities that men have- opportunities that some women, however small a number, want and are qualified for- because men might not be able to remain professional with females around.

    These same arguments were made when women wanted to be firefighters, police officers, every job. Up until the 60s, women were largely constrained to being nurses, teachers, and secretaries, because it was believed that men might not be able to handle them being anything else.
    But today women work in nearly every field, and men now appear to be handling it just fine.
    it only took some getting used to.
    Of course the problem is with the Men in this case...We DON'T want Women in Hand to Hand Combat Situations...YES! it's OUR FAULT that we're worried over them. That's Human Nature.

    More Men AND Women would be killed because of it. A Combat Zone IS NOT a 9-5 "Job",,,so you can drop all the hyperbole.


    Peace.

  6. #806
    Meh...
    MSgt's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    Colorado
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 03:38 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    17,986

    Re: Should females be allowed to specialize as infantry in the military?

    Quote Originally Posted by Realist1 View Post
    Of course the problem is with the Men in this case...We DON'T want Women in Hand to Hand Combat Situations...YES! it's OUR FAULT that we're worried over them. That's Human Nature.

    More Men AND Women would be killed because of it. A Combat Zone IS NOT a 9-5 "Job",,,so you can drop all the hyperbole.
    This is an aspect I didn't touch on. While there are the very real exceptions among the female gender that could stand the toughness of being an 0300, the natural aggression and strength to endure hand-to-hand combat is another matter.

    One argument can suggest that hand-to-hand combat is not as prevailent in today's armed conflicts as they once were like in Vietnam, Korea, or the World Wars. But another argument will attest that in 2003, An-Nazariya and in 2004 Fallujah, saw the worst bit of hand-to-hand combat for Marines since Vietnam.

    I think people very easily lose sight of what they are asking for or arguing about. This isn't a game. We are in a club unlike all others. "Fairness" is rarely a goal. If it were, then the handicapped, the obese, the weak, and the elderly would all have representation. Either we have the fairest military or we have the strongest military. This is not to suggest that it should be an all male club. On the contrary, there are the few women that could do this. But we are talking about a screening process, not an open door.



    Quote Originally Posted by Realist1 View Post
    Peace.
    Peace?! I'm about job security myself. Someone somewhere needs killin'.

    MSgt
    Semper Fidelis
    USMC

  7. #807
    Meh...
    MSgt's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    Colorado
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 03:38 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    17,986

    Re: Should females be allowed to specialize as infantry in the military?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ethereal View Post
    Nothing outdated about it, friend. Just because we live in modern times doesn't mean you can make warfare "modern". It will always turn people into animals...that's why war is terrible.
    I always get a kick out of people that think the nature of warfare changes. Even our government had spent the years following the Cold War up to and into Iraq insisting that the RMA was boiling with wisdom.

    MSgt
    Semper Fidelis
    USMC

  8. #808
    Advisor Realist1's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    Virginia
    Last Seen
    11-27-09 @ 09:15 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    537

    Re: Should females be allowed to specialize as infantry in the military?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ethereal View Post
    Nothing outdated about it, friend. Just because we live in modern times doesn't mean you can make warfare "modern". It will always turn people into animals...that's why war is terrible.
    True enough. If I never get shot at again,,,it'll be too soon.

  9. #809
    Banned
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Last Seen
    10-26-10 @ 06:34 PM
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    24,978

    Re: Should females be allowed to specialize as infantry in the military?

    Quote Originally Posted by Korimyr
    You both seem to be under the assumption that the reason women require extra protection is because they are weak, or somehow less capable of defending themselves. The reason that women require more protection from society is not because they are weaker, but because they are more essential to our survival as a nation. A society that loses a generation of its young men is hurt, but it will muddle through; a society that loses a generation of its young women is walking dead.
    Quote Originally Posted by GySgt View Post
    This is an aspect I didn't touch on. While there are the very real exceptions among the female gender that could stand the toughness of being an 0300, the natural aggression and strength to endure hand-to-hand combat is another matter.

    One argument can suggest that hand-to-hand combat is not as prevailent in today's armed conflicts as they once were like in Vietnam, Korea, or the World Wars. But another argument will attest that in 2003, An-Nazariya and in 2004 Fallujah, saw the worst bit of hand-to-hand combat for Marines since Vietnam.

    I think people very easily lose sight of what they are asking for or arguing about. This isn't a game. We are in a club unlike all others. "Fairness" is rarely a goal. If it were, then the handicapped, the obese, the weak, and the elderly would all have representation. Either we have the fairest military or we have the strongest military. This is not to suggest that it should be an all male club. On the contrary, there are the few women that could do this. But we are talking about a screening process, not an open door.





    Peace?! I'm about job security myself. Someone somewhere needs killin'.


    No, this isn't a "game".
    I find it somewhat laughable that Korimyr and others have suggested that females are simply "too important" to risk on the battlefield.
    The very idea that my life is worth more than the lives of my children makes me laugh (in a sort of hostile and annoyed way).
    The idea that my son- the one currently in basic- is capable of and suited for doing something that is "too dangerous" for me to do. Ha. I repeat: HA.
    He's still a minor. I could still go to jail for child abuse for smacking him. Yet a war-zone is okay for him, and too dangerous for me?
    (this is hypothetical, by the way; his MOS is a support MOS, not infantry. But it could be infantry if that's what he'd chosen. He is male, and he is physically fit, and he scored high enough on the ASVAB to take his pick of MOSs).

    Korimyr is not the final arbiter of whose life is worth more, of who is more "essential" because of what's between their legs.
    My sons' lives are not worth less because they are male. I'd rather see 50,000 women gunned down in cold blood than lose one of my babies, or my husband or my dad for that matter. Everybody I care about is male, don't tell me their lives are worth less than mine or any other woman's, just because they're male.

    All this is merely excuses anyway.
    When women wanted to be firefighters, pilots, police, CEO's, it was the same thing: "Women are too delicate for such harsh and ugly work. It's men's job to shelter them from it, and to protect them from getting their pretty little hands dirty."

    Of course, when some women persisted, men's resistance turned uglier and more insulting: "Real women have no desire to do such unfeminine work. Women who demand opportunities to do it are unnatural. They're not real women."

    But finally... what? Women got the opportunity to do the same work men did, and the opportunity to prove they could handle it, even excel at it.
    Today, all arguments against women working in traditionally male fields sound ridiculously outmoded and pathetically lame.

    I can't believe I'm hearing them now, in reference to the US military.
    Last edited by 1069; 08-09-09 at 07:29 PM.

  10. #810
    Banned
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    Chicago
    Last Seen
    04-02-15 @ 06:08 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian
    Posts
    8,211

    Re: Should females be allowed to specialize as infantry in the military?

    Quote Originally Posted by 1069 View Post
    All this is merely excuses anyway.
    When women wanted to be firefighters, pilots, police, CEO's, it was the same thing: "Women are too delicate for such harsh and ugly work. It's men's job to shelter them from it, and to protect them from getting their pretty little hands dirty."
    None of these things are even remotely comparable to sustained combat operations. It's important that you understand that.

Page 81 of 88 FirstFirst ... 31717980818283 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •