View Poll Results: Should women be allowed to specialize as infantry

Voters
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  • Yes, and they should be integrated with the males

    101 57.71%
  • Yes, but keep their units seperate from male units

    16 9.14%
  • No, but women should be given some basic infantry skills beyond basic training

    33 18.86%
  • No, women should never serve in a role where they may encounter combat

    15 8.57%
  • Other....

    10 5.71%
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Thread: Should females be allowed to specialize as infantry in the military?

  1. #601
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    Re: Should females be allowed to specialize as infantry in the military?

    Quote Originally Posted by smartaleck View Post
    Excuse me you remind me of a arrogant bully and not someone who wants to carry on a intelligent debate and I never try to have a discussin with people wanting to only prove they are right and you are wrong and refuse to have a open mind on the subject being discussed.
    I have to admit that all of us get into it from time to time. Unfortunately GI Joe can be abusive, but so can I and others here. If you feel he is not worth it just put him on ignore or report the post as personal attacks are against the rules.

    The problem is you are not responding to anyone other than to cheer-lead the one's you agree with. At the same time adding nothing to the discussion that is (in my humble opinion) relevant. Then you insult the sex and intelligence of all involved who disagree and when we respond you basically ignore it. That is your right but respect is earned, not given.

    I am not trying to bait, attack or troll in any way but you have not been giving any respect or even consideration to those who disagree. Whether they are respectful or not.

    Then you say...

    "I never try to have a discussin with people wanting to only prove they are right and you are wrong and refuse to have a open mind on the subject being discussed." - smartaleck

    I and others have asked you to respond to your blanket statements about men and anyone who disagrees. You choose not to for ambiguous reasons and expect some degree of credibility or respect?
    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    Benjii likes the protests...he'd be largely irrelevant without them. So he needs to speak where he knows there will be protests against him and that makes him responsible for the protests.
    Quote Originally Posted by Absentglare View Post
    You can successfully wipe your ass with toilet paper, that doesn't mean that you should.

  2. #602
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    Re: Should females be allowed to specialize as infantry in the military?

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackdog View Post
    I have to admit that all of us get into it from time to time. Unfortunately GI Joe can be abusive, but so can I and others here. If you feel he is not worth it just put him on ignore or report the post as personal attacks are against the rules.

    The problem is you are not responding to anyone other than to cheer-lead the one's you agree with. At the same time adding nothing to the discussion that is (in my humble opinion) relevant. Then you insult the sex and intelligence of all involved who disagree and when we respond you basically ignore it. That is your right but respect is earned, not given.

    I am not trying to bait, attack or troll in any way but you have not been giving any respect or even consideration to those who disagree. Whether they are respectful or not.

    Then you say...

    "I never try to have a discussin with people wanting to only prove they are right and you are wrong and refuse to have a open mind on the subject being discussed." - smartaleck

    I and others have asked you to respond to your blanket statements about men and anyone who disagrees. You choose not to for ambiguous reasons and expect some degree of credibility or respect?
    I stand by my statement. I also do not need the respect of a group of men who like to bate, attack and start useless arguments. Also I's OK if you are a man to make blanket statement about women but we may no do so in return.

    Now I'm to be told by you how to conduct myself and what to say. I think not

    Like I said I'm not here to do nothing but argue with a bunch of closed minded people so you who pretend you are not looking for a argument can move on and I will ignore you and anyone else I choose to..

  3. #603
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    Re: Should females be allowed to specialize as infantry in the military?

    Quote Originally Posted by smartaleck View Post
    I stand by my statement. I also do not need the respect of a group of men who like to bate, attack and start useless arguments.
    This is again a generalization as not everyone is doing that.

    Quote Originally Posted by smartaleck View Post
    Also I's OK if you are a man to make blanket statement about women but we may no do so in return.
    Please point out where I have done so?

    Quote Originally Posted by smartaleck View Post
    Now I'm to be told by you how to conduct myself and what to say. I think not
    You are being told do unto others as you would do unto yourself.

    Quote Originally Posted by smartaleck View Post
    Like I said I'm not here to do nothing but argue with a bunch of closed minded people so you who pretend you are not looking for a argument can move on and I will ignore you and anyone else I choose to..
    OK so in other words you are trolling and have no argument. Noted.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    Benjii likes the protests...he'd be largely irrelevant without them. So he needs to speak where he knows there will be protests against him and that makes him responsible for the protests.
    Quote Originally Posted by Absentglare View Post
    You can successfully wipe your ass with toilet paper, that doesn't mean that you should.

  4. #604
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    Re: Should females be allowed to specialize as infantry in the military?

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    While my opposition to females serving in combat units, especially infantry units isn't about ability, it is a fact that a 115 pound woman isn't going to be able to perform some tasks. If females are ever allowed to serve in infantry units, they should have to perform all tasks to the same standards as male soldiers; no gener norming.



    Its true many females cannot carry the weight effectively. However, its also true that many of the women embedded with combat units carry their share of weight quite well. Moreover, as I said earlier, already in patrolling vehicles in the Royal Artillery they wear there share of kit and are in place to take on the enemy.
    One should also note that many men cannot carry the weight effectively either.

    As for gays in the military, the argument against is effectively dead. The UK now has a strict policy against discrimination in the ranks and the Coldstream Guards have an openly gay soldier who has been fully accepted in the unit;
    British Army Magazine Features Openly Gay Soldier on Cover Next to Word 'Pride' | World | AlterNet

    Also, that US soldier is extremely slovenly, he has not bothered to pack his kit correctly and is as likely to go down with exhaustion as fight. Leaving equipment to drag along is the height of poor personal admin in the field.

  5. #605
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    Re: Should females be allowed to specialize as infantry in the military?

    They will be parachuted in with loud speakers to nag the enemy to death.


    THE GREATEST FREEDOM IS THE FREEDOM TO OPPRESS OTHERS

  6. #606
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    Re: Should females be allowed to specialize as infantry in the military?

    Quote Originally Posted by creation View Post
    Its true many females cannot carry the weight effectively. However, its also true that many of the women embedded with combat units carry their share of weight quite well. Moreover, as I said earlier, already in patrolling vehicles in the Royal Artillery they wear there share of kit and are in place to take on the enemy.
    One should also note that many men cannot carry the weight effectively either.
    In the US Army and Marines every male can carry his load. They cannot get out of basic if they can't. So the argument that many men can't is not applicable.

    Riding around in a support vehicle is not the same and is irrelevant as most combat is not done from a vehicle.

    Quote Originally Posted by creation View Post
    As for gays in the military, the argument against is effectively dead. The UK now has a strict policy against discrimination in the ranks and the Coldstream Guards have an openly gay soldier who has been fully accepted in the unit;
    British Army Magazine Features Openly Gay Soldier on Cover Next to Word 'Pride' | World | AlterNet
    This has nothing to do with this debate at all. Gays serve in the US military. This is completely irrelevant.

    Quote Originally Posted by creation View Post
    Also, that US soldier is extremely slovenly, he has not bothered to pack his kit correctly and is as likely to go down with exhaustion as fight. Leaving equipment to drag along is the height of poor personal admin in the field.
    That is two different soldiers and the only one that has anything hitting the ground is on his knee. Does not really mean anything.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    Benjii likes the protests...he'd be largely irrelevant without them. So he needs to speak where he knows there will be protests against him and that makes him responsible for the protests.
    Quote Originally Posted by Absentglare View Post
    You can successfully wipe your ass with toilet paper, that doesn't mean that you should.

  7. #607
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    Re: Should females be allowed to specialize as infantry in the military?

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackdog View Post
    In the US Army and Marines every male can carry his load. They cannot get out of basic if they can't. So the argument that many men can't is not applicable.
    Indeed, but basic training is not a permanent condition. Men in units degrade in fitness over time, yet still patrol with their troops despite being no fitter than a fit female.

    Riding around in a support vehicle is not the same and is irrelevant as most combat is not done from a vehicle.
    A snatch Land Rover is not a support vehicle, its a patrolling vehicle for dealing with trouble in cities. Though of course it is multi tasked.

    Also thinking that combat is not done from a vehicle is quite wrong.




    This has nothing to do with this debate at all. Gays serve in the US military. This is completely irrelevant.
    Arent you guys still ejecting openly gay soldiers from the service?



    That is two different soldiers and the only one that has anything hitting the ground is on his knee. Does not really mean anything.
    yes, the first one is clearly wilting, and isnt going to be running anywhere fast should they come into contact.

    The second, is indeed not trailing along the ground, just his knees. Lets hope he doesnt have to traverse any trenches, ditches, bush cover etc etc and constantly look behind him for kit that has been pulled from his back.

  8. #608
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    Re: Should females be allowed to specialize as infantry in the military?

    Quote Originally Posted by creation View Post
    Indeed, but basic training is not a permanent condition. Men in units degrade in fitness over time, yet still patrol with their troops despite being no fitter than a fit female.
    A fit male and a fit female are two completely different things, and again it does not apply. If it were a valid argument females would be participating in the same professional sporting events with men, but they can't.

    Quote Originally Posted by creation View Post
    A snatch Land Rover is not a support vehicle, its a patrolling vehicle for dealing with trouble in cities. Though of course it is multi tasked.
    And my point is most combat is not done from patrolling vehicles.

    Quote Originally Posted by creation View Post
    Also thinking that combat is not done from a vehicle is quite wrong.
    I did not say all combat is, I said most. Unless you are talking about armor or armored cav most combat is not done from a vehicle.

    Quote Originally Posted by creation View Post
    Arent you guys still ejecting openly gay soldiers from the service?
    Yes and how does this affect females in combat arms? It has no bearing at all as I already stated.

    Quote Originally Posted by creation View Post
    yes, the first one is clearly wilting, and isnt going to be running anywhere fast should they come into contact.
    That's why we drop the equipment after we engage. Where you ever in the military? I ask because that would be common knowledge for a veteran.

    Quote Originally Posted by creation View Post
    The second, is indeed not trailing along the ground, just his knees. Lets hope he doesnt have to traverse any trenches, ditches, bush cover etc etc and constantly look behind him for kit that has been pulled from his back.
    He is walking along the road, don't think he is going to come across to many trenches or ditches.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    Benjii likes the protests...he'd be largely irrelevant without them. So he needs to speak where he knows there will be protests against him and that makes him responsible for the protests.
    Quote Originally Posted by Absentglare View Post
    You can successfully wipe your ass with toilet paper, that doesn't mean that you should.

  9. #609
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    Re: Should females be allowed to specialize as infantry in the military?

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    There's no way that an assaulting unit will, with 100% certainty, be able to immediately break contact once they engaged.

    There's an old saying in the miltiary, "No plan survives first contact with the enemy".
    Not with 100% certainty of course, but most of the times the plan pretty much survives to its end.
    That's why cases when the plan did not survive to the end of the operation are seen as irregulars.

    But I don't see what you're arguing about, the units that are sent to quick assaults/operations are never stuck in a mountain surviving on ants meat and grass.

    What exactly is the problem with a female being a combat soldier in such a unit?
    "The darkest places in hell are reserved for those who maintain their neutrality in times of moral crisis."

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    Re: Should females be allowed to specialize as infantry in the military?

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackdog View Post
    No. I was attached (be it briefly) to a ranger unit while in the guard, and no it would not work well.
    You do not explain why it wouldn't go well(according to your own opinion), so you don't really leave me room for debating the issue.
    "The darkest places in hell are reserved for those who maintain their neutrality in times of moral crisis."

    Dante Alighieri

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