View Poll Results: Should women be allowed to specialize as infantry

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  • Yes, and they should be integrated with the males

    101 57.71%
  • Yes, but keep their units seperate from male units

    16 9.14%
  • No, but women should be given some basic infantry skills beyond basic training

    33 18.86%
  • No, women should never serve in a role where they may encounter combat

    15 8.57%
  • Other....

    10 5.71%
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Thread: Should females be allowed to specialize as infantry in the military?

  1. #541
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    Re: Should females be allowed to specialize as infantry in the military?

    Quote Originally Posted by rivrrat View Post
    No, they cannot.
    They can and do even as I type this. thousands of females serve proudly in non-combat arms related missions all over the world.

    Quote Originally Posted by rivrrat View Post
    Maybe in the general realm, but I fail to see how it's unconstitutional to require something as a condition of employment.
    This is the United States, not Communist China. We cannot require birth control as #1 it is not 100% effective and #2 Females forget to take them all the time. The main reason is because even in the military we are the owners of our body.

    Quote Originally Posted by rivrrat View Post
    I don't deny this, but that doesn't negate the fact that there are exceptions to the 'rules'.
    I agree. I just don't see trying to change the system when it does not need it.

    Quote Originally Posted by rivrrat View Post
    Pahlease. There are few women who want to be a man. Only women who truly want a sex change would want to be a man.
    You are correct and I should have been clearer. I meant females I have known who are or were in the military and police officers. I also don't mean in general, but their seemed to be allot of em.

    Quote Originally Posted by rivrrat View Post
    It's that not ALL females are built for the rigors of combat, but some are. Some are built for child rearing but some are not. It's a fact of life.
    Not true at all. Our bone structure proves you are wrong. This is why they can tell your sex with nothing but a skeleton.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    Benjii likes the protests...he'd be largely irrelevant without them. So he needs to speak where he knows there will be protests against him and that makes him responsible for the protests.
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  2. #542
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    Re: Should females be allowed to specialize as infantry in the military?

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackdog View Post
    They can and do even as I type this. thousands of females serve proudly in non-combat arms related missions all over the world.
    Sure, and maybe that's what they wanted to do. But the ones who want to serve in combat (like I did) would not be happy in other positions.

    This is the United States, not Communist China. We cannot require birth control as #1 it is not 100% effective and #2 Females forget to take them all the time. The main reason is because even in the military we are the owners of our body.
    And yet employers can require people be non-smokers as a condition of employment. Odd....

    Doesn't the military require certain BMI to be allowed in? I mean, could a morbidly obese man join? Isn't his body his own?

    And, we are far past the time for taking pills. IUDs work even better.



    I agree. I just don't see trying to change the system when it does not need it.
    Obviously it does so as to stop blatant discrimination by our own government.

    Not true at all. Our bone structure proves you are wrong. This is why they can tell your sex with nothing but a skeleton.
    Not all women have wide hips. Some actually have hips too narrow to give birth. Some women are completely incapable of getting pregnant at all. Not all women have bodies "designed for child rearing". And, regardless of that, we're a bit beyond what mother nature may have had in mind for us. And regardless of THAT, even if every single woman in the world could give birth, that doesn't negate the fact that some of them can also perform in combat positions quite adequately. Women have proven themselves to be far more capable at multitasking than men anyway.

  3. #543
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    Re: Should females be allowed to specialize as infantry in the military?

    Quote Originally Posted by rivrrat View Post
    Sure, and maybe that's what they wanted to do. But the ones who want to serve in combat (like I did) would not be happy in other positions.
    Like I said get used to disappointment.

    Quote Originally Posted by rivrrat View Post
    And yet employers can require people be non-smokers as a condition of employment. Odd....
    Employers cannot require employees to take drugs or get implants into their body as terms of employment... Odd.

    Quote Originally Posted by rivrrat View Post
    Doesn't the military require certain BMI to be allowed in? I mean, could a morbidly obese man join? Isn't his body his own?
    Absolutely and that would be false as it has nothing to do with requiring birth control.

    Quote Originally Posted by rivrrat View Post
    And, we are far past the time for taking pills. IUDs work even better.
    Does not change the current situation as again they are not 100% effective.

    Quote Originally Posted by rivrrat View Post
    Obviously it does so as to stop blatant discrimination by our own government.
    And some of us see it as common sense.

    Quote Originally Posted by rivrrat View Post
    Not all women have wide hips. Some actually have hips too narrow to give birth. Some women are completely incapable of getting pregnant at all. Not all women have bodies "designed for child rearing". And, regardless of that, we're a bit beyond what mother nature may have had in mind for us. And regardless of THAT, even if every single woman in the world could give birth, that doesn't negate the fact that some of them can also perform in combat positions quite adequately. Women have proven themselves to be far more capable at multitasking than men anyway.
    Irrelevant.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    Benjii likes the protests...he'd be largely irrelevant without them. So he needs to speak where he knows there will be protests against him and that makes him responsible for the protests.
    Quote Originally Posted by Absentglare View Post
    You can successfully wipe your ass with toilet paper, that doesn't mean that you should.

  4. #544
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    Re: Should females be allowed to specialize as infantry in the military?

    so it would seem that after a cost-benefit analysis, it is not cost effective to weed out the overwhelming majority of women who can not make it, just to get the few that can.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jallman View Post
    How the hell did you just tie in a retroactive reparative measure with a proactive preventative measure. Not even close to being the same thing.

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    Re: Should females be allowed to specialize as infantry in the military?

    Quote Originally Posted by DeeJayH View Post
    so it would seem that after a cost-benefit analysis, it is not cost effective to weed out the overwhelming majority of women who can not make it, just to get the few that can.
    Well I do agree with Riverrat that it is unfair, but lots of things in this world are unfair.

    So your assessment is correct as far as the raw data shows.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    Benjii likes the protests...he'd be largely irrelevant without them. So he needs to speak where he knows there will be protests against him and that makes him responsible for the protests.
    Quote Originally Posted by Absentglare View Post
    You can successfully wipe your ass with toilet paper, that doesn't mean that you should.

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    Re: Should females be allowed to specialize as infantry in the military?

    Quote Originally Posted by WI Crippler View Post
    http://www.debatepolitics.com/breaki...le-troops.html

    That is the discussion that has given birth to this particular poll.

    I want to be clear with the question here. I am asking if you think females should be allowed to serve as infantrymen(persons?) in the military. That means, they are not a cook or aircraft mechanic who has some basic infantry skills gleaned from either boot camp, or extra infantry training like the Marines put all personnell though.

    What we are asking is if you think women should be allowed to be grunts.
    This would greatly put many lives in danger in combat.

    Complete focus is needed during battle that could last days and any room for one mans distractions from the task at hand could prove fatal for the entire squad.

  7. #547
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    Re: Should females be allowed to specialize as infantry in the military?

    Quote Originally Posted by Maximus Decimus Meridius View Post
    This would greatly put many lives in danger in combat.

    Complete focus is needed during battle that could last days and any room for one mans distractions from the task at hand could prove fatal for the entire squad.
    First the statement that women were not physically able to do the job of a grunt was made and now it is the fact that they can't focus. A big laugh on that one. Try having a baby and the doctor is telling you to focus all you attention on pushing while you are in severe pain and then tell me about focus.

    Second, it was a while back but a 19 year old girl was decorated for saving the life of a guy in her unit. Her job was not combat but support of the troops but all troops thankfully are trained to shoot and what to do in a combat situation. They were attacked in Iraq and pinned down and her friend was wounded and she covered him with her body until help came. She got wounded in the process and got a purple and heart and a lot of troops didn't like it just because she was a woman.

    We are presently running out of troops to fight our wars. Guys being sent into combat over and over because we are in desperate need of more toops and they are thinking of taking criminals from prison who are not violent into the Army. I think I prefer a woman who can't focus to that alternative.

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    Re: Should females be allowed to specialize as infantry in the military?

    Quote Originally Posted by smartaleck View Post
    First the statement that women were not physically able to do the job of a grunt was made and now it is the fact that they can't focus. A big laugh on that one. Try having a baby and the doctor is telling you to focus all you attention on pushing while you are in severe pain and then tell me about focus.

    Second, it was a while back but a 19 year old girl was decorated for saving the life of a guy in her unit. Her job was not combat but support of the troops but all troops thankfully are trained to shoot and what to do in a combat situation. They were attacked in Iraq and pinned down and her friend was wounded and she covered him with her body until help came. She got wounded in the process and got a purple and heart and a lot of troops didn't like it just because she was a woman.

    We are presently running out of troops to fight our wars. Guys being sent into combat over and over because we are in desperate need of more toops and they are thinking of taking criminals from prison who are not violent into the Army. I think I prefer a woman who can't focus to that alternative.
    I was referring to placing women with the men would put into play the possible distraction and loss of focus of one or more of the men.

    No matter how well trained soldiers may be, sex is a basic human instinct, expecially for most young men with strong hormones within the ages usually recruited into the military.

    This same arguement can be made for a valid reason to keep gays out of the military.

  9. #549
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    Re: Should females be allowed to specialize as infantry in the military?

    Quote Originally Posted by smartaleck View Post
    First the statement that women were not physically able to do the job of a grunt was made and now it is the fact that they can't focus. A big laugh on that one. Try having a baby and the doctor is telling you to focus all you attention on pushing while you are in severe pain and then tell me about focus.
    Comparing pushing a baby out and infantry requirements is comparing apples to oranges. Infantry doesn't require a tolerance to severe pain.



    We are presently running out of troops to fight our wars. Guys being sent into combat over and over because we are in desperate need of more toops and they are thinking of taking criminals from prison who are not violent into the Army. I think I prefer a woman who can't focus to that alternative.

    If women are not held to the same physical standards as their male counterparts then they should not be in the infantry period. Being a infantryman requires more than just being able to shoot. I seriously doubt most women with the same exact training as their male counterparts could do just as well as their male counterparts. The Army and even Marines have lower standards for females. Maybe it is a cost-benefit analysis as another posted why females are not allowed in the infantry or even combat arms MOSs.
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    Re: Should females be allowed to specialize as infantry in the military?

    Women aren't as anatomically able as their male counterparts. It's not sexism, it's simply biology. If a fully grown, averagely sized man struggles to lug around his weight in military equipment than a fully grown, averagely sized women is going to simply fail. This is leaving out of the variables, such as freakisly large women, but you know.

    I'll put it this way: the fastest man in the world is faster than the fasters woman. The strongest man in the world is stronger than the strongest woman.

    Women aren't designed for heavy labour jobs. It's an evolutionary imperative for the males, the hunter gatherer, and not the females. This will probably change one day but the female body has not adapted to the strain that the male body can cope with. A large lacuna on testosteron production helps, too.

    It's not about firing a pistol. It's about anatomic capabilities. The female body could put the lives of male soldiers in danger on the frontline.

    I await the cries of foul play.
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