View Poll Results: Should women be allowed to specialize as infantry

Voters
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  • Yes, and they should be integrated with the males

    101 57.71%
  • Yes, but keep their units seperate from male units

    16 9.14%
  • No, but women should be given some basic infantry skills beyond basic training

    33 18.86%
  • No, women should never serve in a role where they may encounter combat

    15 8.57%
  • Other....

    10 5.71%
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Thread: Should females be allowed to specialize as infantry in the military?

  1. #401
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    Re: Should females be allowed to specialize as infantry in the military?

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    Women being able to kill is self evident based on evidence that has nothing to do with abortion. Your use of abortion in this issue was pretty obviously an attempt to get a reaction, and not to add to the discussion.

    Edited to add: Oops, sorry Talloulou, you posted while I was.
    I honestly can not think of a better example
    but i would love to hear of an alternative example of women's callous ability to kill on a large scale if you have one to offer up, since mine is now unspeakable in this thread

    Human Taxidermist - - now offering his services for all your loved ones
    Quote Originally Posted by jallman View Post
    How the hell did you just tie in a retroactive reparative measure with a proactive preventative measure. Not even close to being the same thing.

  2. #402
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    Re: Should females be allowed to specialize as infantry in the military?

    Quote Originally Posted by Voidwar View Post
    False, because Lerxst was factually incorrect and thus his posting was "e-libel". Further, an admonition to stay on topic, is inherently on topic, while a falsehood laden smear campaign is not.

    Propaganda. The very fact that I used the term is proof that my comment was directed at his argument and not his person. Q.E.D.
    I was absolutely spot on about you. Leave it alone, you're losing at this point.
    *insert profound statement here*

  3. #403
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    Re: Should females be allowed to specialize as infantry in the military?

    Quote Originally Posted by Catz Part Deux View Post
    Don't women enjoy the same benefits of living in this society? Aren't they equally called upon to defend it?

    Where does equality stop? While we sit on our hands and watch the menfolks go off to die?


    Do male paratroopers sit by and watch while ANYONE goes into the meat grinder?



    Oh, so we should let barbaric, dark ages societies set our policies.


    I doubt that most women would have difficulty following male officers.



    Do you fail to understand that most women have internalized the concept of rape in a way that you NEVER will. And, if women choose to risk that circumstance, who are you to say that they are not entitled to do so?


    Do we have an unlimited amount of male recruits? I'd prefer to use female volunteers OVER male draftees.

    One, that doesn't tell me how dying defends liberty.

    Two, we can fill our infantry units will all volunteers and still man them as men only.

    Three, having walked into torture/rape rooms in combat I am well aware of their effects on the battlefield. Had the victims been one of our soldiers, I doubt very seriously I would have been able to control the troops.

    Four, that does not prevent young men and women from covorting and sexual tensions that can rip a unit apart in combat. I have seen two many male soldiers do 'favors' for female soldiers, and seen competition fo rthe attention of attractive female soldiers create tensions and divisions in co-ed units that, were they to exist in close proximity to an enemy, would result in needless death and quite possibly defeat (and more deaths to retake the lost positions).

    Are you really willing to lead soldiers into battle, take uneccessary risks with their lives, turn your back on the differing standards for men and women (somehow believeing that these standards will magically be enforced equally), and return to someone's parents and tell them you did everything you could to save their son's or daughter's life in the face the enemy? I know of very few infantry officers who are willing to do that.

    Again, perhaps when the sexes are truly equal, this may be possible. Let's start with equality is ways that do not risk life and limb. When my sons can enter the all women colleges, maybe then we can start risking lives with women in the infantry.

    Battle is not a place of gender equality, it is a place were weakness is exploited with brutal results.

    I know what I would do if I lined up against an all female BN, and I have a very hard time believing that our enemies would behave anything but even more brutal in response to the same thing.

    There principals worth dying for, but dying needlessly for a principal whose existence your own death may invalidate is not a good idea.

  4. #404
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    Re: Should females be allowed to specialize as infantry in the military?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ethereal View Post
    Sure it is. Men retain a biological predilection for violence. Thousands of years of hunting and warfare have made sure of this.

    Anyway, I feel you are being slightly obtuse. You know what I mean. I'm speaking to the emotional divergence between men and women. A platoon of Marine grunts has a distinct emotional makeup that in no way resembles the typical thought process of women. I know you know what I'm saying.
    Snippet of a marching song I learned from a Marine:

    "See that girl dressed in pink?
    She's the one that makes my finger stink!
    Left right left!"

    I wonder if they still belt that one out on the modern integrated Corps?

  5. #405
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    Re: Should females be allowed to specialize as infantry in the military?

    Quote Originally Posted by Catz Part Deux View Post
    Women are autonomous beings who are entitled to make the call of where they are needed the most FOR THEMSELVES.
    No. We're discussing the military. Their commanders figure out where they're supposed to go and what they're supposed to do.

  6. #406
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    Re: Should females be allowed to specialize as infantry in the military?

    Quote Originally Posted by Scarecrow Akhbar View Post
    No. We're discussing the military. Their commanders figure out where they're supposed to go and what they're supposed to do.
    Partly true. Recruits do have some input into what job they are assigned, either during the recruitment process, or after.

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    Re: Should females be allowed to specialize as infantry in the military?

    Quote Originally Posted by gree0232 View Post
    One, that doesn't tell me how dying defends liberty.

    Two, we can fill our infantry units will all volunteers and still man them as men only.

    Three, having walked into torture/rape rooms in combat I am well aware of their effects on the battlefield. Had the victims been one of our soldiers, I doubt very seriously I would have been able to control the troops.

    Four, that does not prevent young men and women from covorting and sexual tensions that can rip a unit apart in combat. I have seen two many male soldiers do 'favors' for female soldiers, and seen competition fo rthe attention of attractive female soldiers create tensions and divisions in co-ed units that, were they to exist in close proximity to an enemy, would result in needless death and quite possibly defeat (and more deaths to retake the lost positions).

    Are you really willing to lead soldiers into battle, take uneccessary risks with their lives, turn your back on the differing standards for men and women (somehow believeing that these standards will magically be enforced equally), and return to someone's parents and tell them you did everything you could to save their son's or daughter's life in the face the enemy? I know of very few infantry officers who are willing to do that.

    Again, perhaps when the sexes are truly equal, this may be possible. Let's start with equality is ways that do not risk life and limb. When my sons can enter the all women colleges, maybe then we can start risking lives with women in the infantry.

    Battle is not a place of gender equality, it is a place were weakness is exploited with brutal results.

    I know what I would do if I lined up against an all female BN, and I have a very hard time believing that our enemies would behave anything but even more brutal in response to the same thing.

    There principals worth dying for, but dying needlessly for a principal whose existence your own death may invalidate is not a good idea.

    What I expect from an army with co-ed infantry units along a front with the enemy is the following letter:

    Dear Mr. Johnson,

    I regret to inform you that your son was killed in action because the two soldiers assigned to guard duty were derelict in their duties and engaged in sexual activity.

    Our deepest sympathies,

    Lt. Kinski.

    Yeah, the letter wouldn't be phrased like that, but that's one possibility.

  8. #408
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    Arrow Re: Should females be allowed to specialize as infantry in the military?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lerxst View Post
    I was absolutely spot on about you. Leave it alone, you're losing at this point.
    No, I'm not losing. I already won. A false assertion was made and no quote was provided to back it. You, sir, are upset for getting caught lying when you should be upset with yourself for lying.

  9. #409
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    Re: Should females be allowed to specialize as infantry in the military?

    Quote Originally Posted by Catz Part Deux View Post
    Are we allowed to throw ourselves on a grenade to protect our children?
    Yes. But what I say about a sane society keeping its women away from battlefields goes double for its children. If people are throwing grenades at your children, we're fighting on our home turf and I believe I've already stated unequivocally that women should have infantry training. The reason I support this is for just such an occasion.

    Quote Originally Posted by Catz Part Deux View Post
    How about an idea (life, liberty, pursuit of happiness)? What about our parents? Our country?
    My point is, regardless of how willing you are to die for your country-- and again, I applaud you for this-- your country would be better served by keeping you alive. The loss of a generation of fine young men in war wounds a nation, but it will recover. The loss of a generation of fine young women in war cripples a nation, assuming that it does not wound the nation fatally.

    Quote Originally Posted by Catz Part Deux View Post
    I would counter that these things are too valuable NOT to allow women the option of dying to defend them.
    I would reiterate that the survival of women is too essential to the survival of a nation and its ideas to allow them to do so. If these things are so vital that they must be protected at all costs, they must also be perpetuated at all costs.

    Quote Originally Posted by Catz Part Deux View Post
    Don't women enjoy the same benefits of living in this society? Aren't they equally called upon to defend it?

    Where does equality stop? While we sit on our hands and watch the menfolks go off to die?
    Someone has to make sure there's a home for the men to return to. And if the war's bad enough that most of the men are gone then, like in World War 2, somebody has to make sure that the machines are still running and that the industry of the nation continues to support the military.

  10. #410
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    Re: Should females be allowed to specialize as infantry in the military?

    Quote Originally Posted by Korimyr the Rat View Post
    My point is, regardless of how willing you are to die for your country-- and again, I applaud you for this-- your country would be better served by keeping you alive. The loss of a generation of fine young men in war wounds a nation, but it will recover. The loss of a generation of fine young women in war cripples a nation, assuming that it does not wound the nation fatally.
    If we get to a war where we lose a whole generation of either sex, or even a significant portion of one to the point where it would matter, we are going to have bigger problems than whether women are fighting on the front lines.

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