View Poll Results: Should women be allowed to specialize as infantry

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  • Yes, and they should be integrated with the males

    101 57.71%
  • Yes, but keep their units seperate from male units

    16 9.14%
  • No, but women should be given some basic infantry skills beyond basic training

    33 18.86%
  • No, women should never serve in a role where they may encounter combat

    15 8.57%
  • Other....

    10 5.71%
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Thread: Should females be allowed to specialize as infantry in the military?

  1. #351
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    Re: Should females be allowed to specialize as infantry in the military?

    Quote Originally Posted by gree0232 View Post
    So, these things are imagined? They do not happen now?

    19 year old men and women do not engage in this sort of behavior, so we should ignore it?

    Ar eyou willing to lead infantry units into battle and face the consequences if these things come into play during a battle? Are you willing to confront the familes of the men and women who may potentially die when these 'imagined' deterrents pop up?

    Are you willing to control the men of a unit and prevent atrocity the first time a female soldier in found raped? What do you think would have happened if those had been young women pulled off street corners in Iraq instead of young men?

    Are you truly willing to face these things? Battle is not a kind or friendly activity and weaknesses and mistakes are exploited with absolute ruthlessness. Simply dismissing things because you do not want to acknowledge them does not mean that your enemy will ignore them in battle.
    Are you suggesting women don't have any stomach for violence or lack leadership capacity? If so, what evidence do you have to sustain this?
    *insert profound statement here*

  2. #352
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    Re: Should females be allowed to specialize as infantry in the military?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ethereal View Post
    No, the idea that woman are emotionally and physically suited to withstand the rigors of extended combat operations as part of an infantry platoon.
    Provide evidence to support your assertion. Not your sexist opinion, but actual proof.
    *insert profound statement here*

  3. #353
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    Re: Should females be allowed to specialize as infantry in the military?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lerxst View Post
    Provide evidence to support your assertion.
    There's no proof either way, otherwise we wouldn't be having this conversation.

    Not your sexist opinion, but actual proof.
    Spare me the PC hogwash. I'm just being honest.

  4. #354
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    Re: Should females be allowed to specialize as infantry in the military?

    Quote Originally Posted by talloulou View Post
    Why? Am I supposed to wander around pretending that I have the upper body strength of a man despite all evidence to the contrary? We rarely ever integrate sports competitions because of the obvious fact that if we did women wouldn't make it on to most teams. But let's PC up the combat field. We'll separate the men from the women in world competitions on swimming, basketball, and everything else but on the battlefield we'll pretend the sexes are the same. Makes sense, right?
    You are willfully twistin my posts. I never said anything about PC'ing the battlefield. I said that who is qualified to perform each individual MOS (job for you civilians) should be decided on the basis of physical and mental ability. In plain english, that means if you can pass the tests then I dont care whether you are an innie or an outtie. And that doesn't mean that we dumb down the tests or lower the physical requirements.

    Just because YOU feel the need to be coddled and protected does not mean all women should be like you. And I will proudly serve next to any woman who PROVES she can hang. And guess what, that applies to the guys as well. If you can't hang, I don't want you. male, or female.

  5. #355
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    Re: Should females be allowed to specialize as infantry in the military?

    Quote Originally Posted by Catz Part Deux View Post
    Women are autonomous beings who are entitled to make the call of where they are needed the most FOR THEMSELVES.
    I don't believe that's true. Then again, I don't believe it's true for men, either.

    People aren't meant to be autonomous. And the vast majority of people, if they are not given explicit orders about where to go and what to do, make monumentally short-sighted and stupid decisions that not only waste and ruin their own lives, they harm everyone around them and society as a whole. Luckily, the vast majority of people also instinctually defer to anyone that appears capable of giving them direction.

    Nearly all human misery can be attributed to human beings acting without firm leadership-- in most cases, people are safer, healthier, and happier under the worst kinds of tyranny than they are under any kind of anarchy.

    And as much as I respect women, their intellect and their strength and their bravery, they are too valuable to be allowed to throw themselves upon grenades to protect men. Good men recognize this subconsciously, even if they support "equality" and womens' right to stand and die for their country.

  6. #356
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    Re: Should females be allowed to specialize as infantry in the military?

    Quote Originally Posted by talloulou View Post
    It would be a far more believable case if the women who were serving currently in the positions the military currently allows women right now -the standards weren't already lowered for women.
    I agree. And thats why I think the army needs to change how it tests aptitude and physical strenght. As I 've stated before, I was Artillery. Anyone who knows anything about artillery knows it ain't a place for weaklings and yet the army continually allows 18 year old toothpicks who wiegh maybe 100 lbs to serve in that MOS. We had one guy in unit who stood 5', wieghed 104 lbs and spent his entire tour driving a humvee because he didn't possess the strenght to lift an artillery round. I would have taken a female who could perform the job over a male who couldn't ANYDAY.

  7. #357
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    Re: Should females be allowed to specialize as infantry in the military?

    Quote Originally Posted by rsay33 View Post
    I agree. And thats why I think the army needs to change how it tests aptitude and physical strenght. As I 've stated before, I was Artillery. Anyone who knows anything about artillery knows it ain't a place for weaklings and yet the army continually allows 18 year old toothpicks who wiegh maybe 100 lbs to serve in that MOS. We had one guy in unit who stood 5', wieghed 104 lbs and spent his entire tour driving a humvee because he didn't possess the strenght to lift an artillery round. I would have taken a female who could perform the job over a male who couldn't ANYDAY.
    We aren't talking about the artillery. We're talking about the infantry.

  8. #358
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    Re: Should females be allowed to specialize as infantry in the military?

    Quote Originally Posted by WI Crippler View Post
    http://www.debatepolitics.com/breaki...le-troops.html

    That is the discussion that has given birth to this particular poll.

    I want to be clear with the question here. I am asking if you think females should be allowed to serve as infantrymen(persons?) in the military. That means, they are not a cook or aircraft mechanic who has some basic infantry skills gleaned from either boot camp, or extra infantry training like the Marines put all personnell though.

    What we are asking is if you think women should be allowed to be grunts.
    Sure women should be able to fight in combat. Actually there is (or was) a unit called the lionesses in Iraq. They found themselves in combat more than once.

    LIONESS PROGRAM ‘PRIDE’ OF THE CORPS

    ‘‘Twenty years ago, seeing a female [Marine] at a checkpoint with a bunch of 03s [infantrymen] would’ve been really uncommon,” Baker said. ‘‘Now, it’s almost become a norm. It really isn’t a big deal to see women on the frontlines or at these checkpoints.”

    With ‘‘lionesses” continuing to serve in Iraq, the significance of women Marines serving side-by-side with combat units has been accented by their ability to perform their duties as well as any other Marines manning the checkpoints.

    ‘‘I don’t think there was a Marine out there who didn’t understand the importance of having females there,” Baker said. ‘‘No one I know ever questioned their abilities or their knowledge. We didn’t look at them as females serving at a checkpoint, we just saw another Marine.”


    Jezebel - Lionesses: Female Soldiers Are Seeing Combat - Military

    A new PBS documentary, Lioness, sheds new light on the role of women in combat. (It's reviewed in today's Times.) While technically prohibited from direct ground combat, female soldiers in Iraq frequently find themselves occupying a "gray area" that's never existed in prior wars. As one soldier puts it, “We’ve had grenades thrown at us, shooting at us with AK-47’s. It’s a fight-or-flight thing. When someone is shooting at you, you don’t say, ‘Stop the war, I’m a girl.’”

    I watched that documentary. It was very well done.
    “We must picture hell as a state where everyone is perpetually concerned about his own dignity and advancement, where everyone has a grievance, and where everyone lives with the deadly serious passions of envy, self-importance, and resentment.”
    ― C.S. Lewis, The Screwtape Letters

  9. #359
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    Re: Should females be allowed to specialize as infantry in the military?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ethereal View Post
    We aren't talking about the artillery. We're talking about the infantry.
    If you think there is that much difference you are sadly misinformed. If the artillery ain't shootin, they're infantry.

  10. #360
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    Re: Should females be allowed to specialize as infantry in the military?

    Quote Originally Posted by rsay33 View Post
    If you think there is that much difference you are sadly misinformed. If the artillery ain't shootin, they're infantry.
    Going on the occasional combat patrol doesn't make one an infantryman.

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