View Poll Results: Should women be allowed to specialize as infantry

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  • Yes, and they should be integrated with the males

    101 57.71%
  • Yes, but keep their units seperate from male units

    16 9.14%
  • No, but women should be given some basic infantry skills beyond basic training

    33 18.86%
  • No, women should never serve in a role where they may encounter combat

    15 8.57%
  • Other....

    10 5.71%
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Thread: Should females be allowed to specialize as infantry in the military?

  1. #301
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    Re: Should females be allowed to specialize as infantry in the military?

    Quote Originally Posted by talloulou View Post
    If the PT for men is that they run 3 miles within such and such amount of time a woman should have to do the same - when the job is serving in infantry. If a man has to be able to do so many pull ups then so should a woman - for battle readiness.

    If they can't then you are basically giving a unit a weaker peer by giving them a woman and on the battlefield that is flat out unacceptable.

    You can't argue it away by saying, "they're different so they do things differently," if the difference is brute strength it's an issue not to be poo poohed away.
    Correct, I agree with this. Set standards for what is required to do the job physically, without regard to sex, then stand by those standards.

  2. #302
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    Re: Should females be allowed to specialize as infantry in the military?

    Quote Originally Posted by Voidwar View Post
    I think you might be missing the point a bit here. Perhaps gree0232 is not saying that women can't accomplish it, but that in general, they cannot win at said activity against a group of males. Winning against a group of males is sort of part of what the armt wants in specialized infantry, and in specialized infantry contests, the prize for second place is not one you want.
    Wrong again. If a women can in fact meet the requirements that the men must meet then she can fight just as hard as a man. This isn't a weight lifting contest. It's about meeting the physical requirements and being able to train to the task conditions and standards. Some women can, some men can't. Sex is irrelevant in this regard.

    Allowing women to specialize in a certain MOS is not about letting any woman become an infantry soldier. It's about allowing a woman an opportunity to see if she can meet the standard, and if she can, serve in that MOS. I saw many males wash out of Infantry School at Ft. Benning. Many more wash out of more specialized schools.

    You make the grade or you don't.

    I disagree with integrated units. I don't agree with the ridiculous notion that women "in general" can't do the job.
    Last edited by Lerxst; 05-27-09 at 04:47 PM.
    *insert profound statement here*

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    Re: Should females be allowed to specialize as infantry in the military?

    Quote Originally Posted by Voidwar View Post
    Quote one from this thread then.
    Already been done, move on.
    *insert profound statement here*

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    Re: Should females be allowed to specialize as infantry in the military?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lerxst View Post
    You are trying to frame my argument for me, it won't work.
    Not me, the thread title. The facts of policy. "females" Not this one super tough gal that Lerxst met, this one time. The gender, as a matter of policy, is the topic. Anecdotes about individuals are not relevant. Specialized Infantry Units do not fight as individuals, but as a group.

  5. #305
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    Re: Should females be allowed to specialize as infantry in the military?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lerxst View Post
    I absolutely do know how they are used because it's what I did on active duty. You've obviously not read this thread in it's entirety. Such a shame as you just wasted a bunch of effort in railing on me without cause.

    No kidding? What's your point? That women can't get physical enough for combat?

    So women can't hump a ruck through the mountains? Care to prove that point?


    Again, you're implying women in general can't do that. I want you to prove it.


    Some could and some men couldn't. I've already addressed this dynamic previously.


    I didn't say that and you apparently have missed several of my other posts in this thread. I've already made this same case as to why we shouldn't integrate women into male dominated combat units. Reading if fundamental. Go back a few pages.

    The argument I am no engaged is countering the very foolish notion that women can't do the job. Some can in fact do the job. Conversely some men can't.
    So, we allow men in the infantry who cannot do the job?

    Having pushed a few men out of the job, I believe I can say with 100% acciracy that men who are physically unable are not allowed to the job. Some still serve in infantry units, but not in the role of infantryman. Who do you think gets pushed into supply jobs which go unfilled? Good men, who are otherwise physically unable.

    So how many women can hump a ruck up a mountain with the same alacrity as their male infantry counterparts?

    Some obviously, but not many, and of those who could, how many would be willing to serve in the roll of the infantry?

    The number of willing to serve in infantry units, even if they are able, will be by necessity, small in number (which you would know if you had read the entire post).

    Since it is small, and 19 year old are 19 year olds you still have the seuxal issue. As you acknowledge this, while ignoring the reality of small numbers that physicality imposes, I am not sure what exactly your point is?

    The two are linked.

    That they are physically able or that this is desreable are two very different things.

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    Re: Should females be allowed to specialize as infantry in the military?

    Quote Originally Posted by talloulou View Post
    They're not political reasons they're biological ones and it happens everyday in our current military and other jobs like firefighters.


    Way to miss the point.

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    Arrow Re: Should females be allowed to specialize as infantry in the military?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lerxst View Post
    Already been done, move on.
    no, it specifically has not "been done" and I will not move on.

    This ad hominem attack of yours, was just another falsehood posted by you in an ad hominem smear campaign. Post the quote I requested, or retract your fallacious claim, or get reported for the e"libel" you have committed.

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    Re: Should females be allowed to specialize as infantry in the military?

    Quote Originally Posted by Catz Part Deux View Post
    What does that have to do with anything? You stated that criminals typically flee from the police. Sometimes, yes. Sometimes, no. In some circumstances, criminals TARGET the police.
    Right. Whatever. The norm is that they run away. Get used to dealing in facts, okay?

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    Re: Should females be allowed to specialize as infantry in the military?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lerxst View Post
    Wrong again. If a women can in fact meet the requirements that the men must meet then she can fight just as hard as a man. This isn't a weight lifting contest. It's about meeting the physical requirements and being able to train to the task conditions and standards. Some women can, some men can't. Sex is irrelevant in this regard.

    Allowing women to specialize in a certain MOS is not about letting any woman become an infantry soldier. It's about allowing a woman an opportunity to see if she can meet the standard, and if she can, serve in that MOS. I saw many males wash out of Infantry School at Ft. Benning. Many more wash out of more specialized schools.

    You make the grade or you don't.

    I disagree with integrated units. I don't agree with the ridiculous notion that women "in general" can't do the job.
    And if this was the current way the military operated you'd get less objection from me in widening the scope of what women are permitted to do. However the military already lowers requirements for women. Men are expected to be able to do more in PT or not make the cut. Women make the cut, doing less. Currently. Right now. Right this minute. I do not want this carrying over to the battlefield. Plus I also think the sex stuff shouldn't be poo poo'd as a non issue as well. Why burden a battle ready unit with needless distractions no matter whose fault they may or may not be.

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    Re: Should females be allowed to specialize as infantry in the military?

    Quote Originally Posted by Voidwar View Post
    This ad hominem attack of yours, was just another falsehood posted by you in an ad hominem smear campaign. Post the quote I requested, or retract your fallacious claim, or get reported for the e"libel" you have committed.
    Your post demonstrates a clear failure to understand the concept of ad hominem.

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